Gandalf literally told Saruman: "the ring knows only one master and it isn't you, buddy" Saruman was attempting to usurp Sauron and thought he could get away with it. A delusion Sauron allowed him to cultivate because it made him short-term useful.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
Well, Saruman made some strategic errors, for sure. I just don't think <his will was enslaved by Sauron> is correct. It's hard to say how much control Sauron had over Saruman, because it's all off-screen. I tend to think it's low, with <I can always destroy him> as a backup.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
in the historical analogy to WW2 it's roughly approximating the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact, where Sauron is Hitler and Saruman is Stalin. Tolkien doesn't portray Saruman as literally enslaved, but he's totally being played and his actions are highly constrained.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
I don't buy the LOTR=WW2 analogy theory. If you just mean it's a comparable non-agression pact, sure. I'm not sure where Saruman is constrained though? He raises his own armies, generically engineers his own orcs, and masterminds his own war campaign.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
I mean, "the author is dead -Barthes" but it was definitely Tolkien's intent and design. The books are a long form allegory about WW2. he is constrained in that once he became corrupted and militarized he had no way out and no way forward. his loss was an inevitable conclusion.
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his best case scenario was acting as a vanguard invasion force and then getting betrayed by Sauron and overrun by the superior forces of Mordor attacking from the rear. his worst case scenario is just losing to hobbits and shit lol.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
I feel like, if not for an Ent uprising, Saruman would have taken Rohan and held a reasonable and strategically valuable kingdom. If he did, Sauron would have won at Minas Tirith, and Saruman would have been a semiindependent vassal state. A decent bet.
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Replying to @WomanCorn @vgr
it was an intelligence failure on his part though. the Ents were already enraged and needed minimal coaxing to mobilize. Saruman was just completely oblivious to the situation cuz he was a scrub. his entire plan relied upon recruiting Gandalf. single point of failure.
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semi-independent vassal state is also a non-entity under Sauron global domination. he doesn't share power. Sauron would have turned on him as soon as it was convenient.
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Replying to @danlistensto @vgr
Remember, Saruman told the wise that the ring had gone into the sea, while searching for it at the Gladden Fields. He was the master of ring lore; If he had it, could he have subverted or destroyed it? Maybe. Stab Sauron in the back before he does it to me might be plausible.
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he was looking in the right place but had not managed to learn about the ring being taken by Smeagol (understandable, nobody knew about it until Bilbo found him by accident) why did he think he could master the ring though? the lore is totally clear on what happens if you try.
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