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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Sep 14

      We have a political culture based on linear metaphors. forward vs. backward. future vs. past. change vs. preservation. these are all hindrances. almost nothing in reality is linear. the world proceeds in loops and spirals and recursions.

      4 replies 5 retweets 27 likes
    2. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
      Replying to @danlistensto

      The idea that history (in the humanities-typical sense, not in the "just collection of "claims" about homo sapiens shenanigans" sense) has any meaningful structure (whether forward-backward or spiral or whathaveyou) is extremely suspect.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Sep 15
      Replying to @0K_ultra

      history is the way we tell stories about our past. the facts themselves have no inherent structure, the stories do.

      12:18 PM - 15 Sep 2018
      • 2 Likes
      • OκULTRA XP🧿 ColumPaget
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @danlistensto

          I think there's a weeeeeee bit of mote-baileyesque thing happening here. Most claims about presence of historical structure (whether forward-back or something more elaborate) are not claims about structure in fictions people make up about the past (in fact, I don't think there

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra @danlistensto

          is a discipline directly dedicated to peculiarities of biases and trends in "free form theorising" human minds fall into when dealing with extremely information-impoverished circumstances, of which "the past" is a fair representative, even tho everything from history to

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra @danlistensto

          psychology to psychiatry deal with this shit from time to time) Most claims about "historical structure" inevitably come back to claims about facts, and more importantly, about what future events will be like. The difference between "history is a forward-backward game" and

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra @danlistensto

          "history develops in a spiral" (not actually a dichotomy, of course - many other options are plausible!) is, inevitably, in implications for future possible developments, not just a trite argument about what dead people were up to before they died.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra @danlistensto

          I think historians have really got burned on this whole (rather important, notably) "trying to discern predictive trends from low quality data about past" thing ever since Marxists stained the world with their bullshit, but still kind of want to engage with it because, well

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra @danlistensto

          it would be incredibly useful if true, and without it, the activity of historical inquiry is a bit... hollow.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Sep 15
          Replying to @0K_ultra

          I agree with a lot of what you're saying w.r.t utility of predictive frameworks. I was commenting a bit more narrowly about political narrative structures though. "We have a political culture based on linear metaphors".

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. OκULTRA XP 🧿‏ @0K_ultra Sep 15
          Replying to @danlistensto

          Haha, fair. Tho, if neither "linear" nor "spiral" nor any other currently available accounts have any particularly strong predictive power, then there's no particular reason to believe a political system based on these alternate... views... would be any better, except maybe by

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 5 more replies
        1. ColumPaget‏ @ColumPaget Sep 15
          Replying to @danlistensto @0K_ultra

          well, some of the facts have an inherent structure. Gravity, for instance, has been a major player in history with fairly predictable outcomes.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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