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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Aug 31

      Vernor Vinge wrote of "bobbles," military tech that provided such a decisive military advantage the first faction to use it was near guaranteed an eternal chokehold on power. There is a nearer example: genetic engineering for intelligence. If it is possible, and first available

      2 replies 1 retweet 29 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Aug 31

      to the rich, and confers a large enough advantage, it seems plausible to me the first generation of adopters (rather, their children) could secure a permanent advantage. New rounds of tech would only heighten the problem, as the first altered generation used the cutting edge

      6 replies 0 retweets 22 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Aug 31

      tech on their kids, etc. * * * I see this issue as more serious by many orders of magnitude than AI risk.

      5 replies 1 retweet 18 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Aug 31
      Replying to @PereGrimmer

      morlocks and eloi, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Aug 31
      Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer

      the genetic engineering you're talking about would only accelerate some of the natural consequences of improved nutrition and pediatric medicine (and possibly assortative mating)

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Aug 31
      Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer

      it does bring to mind an interesting thought experiment about how much an order of magnitude difference in pace of acceleration would matter though. probably quite a lot.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Aug 31
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Yeah. Think of it concretely - say 50,000 people each have at least one kid engineered to have an IQ 6SD higher than von Neumann. The kids form a community. What would they honestly think of we schlubs?

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Aug 31
      Replying to @PereGrimmer @danlistensto

      And, spot on re accelerating assortative mating; but I think it has the potential to be qualitatively different due to the potential for a shift of very high magnitude not subject to noise.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Aug 31
      Replying to @PereGrimmer

      i honestly can't imagine a person with an IQ double that of Von Neumann, who was already a few steps past the line of "can interact with normals without friction" by most accounts. I wonder what the upper cognitive limit actually is. What kind of enhancements are possible?

      4 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    10. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Sep 11
      Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer

      Perhaps there's a limit for biological brains without cryptographically secured reward systems: at some point the mind becomes too smart to be blackmailed by the organism to regulate its affairs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Sep 11
      Replying to @Plinz @PereGrimmer

      can you expand on that? how would you secure a brain's reward functions? in a computer system we'd be looking at message integrity and code injection vulnerabilities. does the brain have analogous functional structures? afaik we have no idea what the mechanism really is.

      2:51 PM - 11 Sep 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Derek
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Sep 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @PereGrimmer

          If a human mind realizes the relevance of hacking its reward function, it may chose to lock itself into the cell of a monastery for a couple decades and let go of whatever it wants. I don't think that we evolved protections (like guilt, shame, boredom, love) against that.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Sep 11
          Replying to @Plinz @danlistensto @PereGrimmer

          The problem is not so much performing illegal operations, but realizing that you are a piece of software, and that all your problems will go away if you change a few bytes. Smart people often know that. It is inevitable that a super-human-level intelligent mind figures it out.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Sep 11
          Replying to @Plinz @danlistensto

          I don't think that follows; the geniuses I'm aware of have not all elected to become Buddhist monks or lotus-eaters. But that could be a selection effect.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz Sep 11
          Replying to @PereGrimmer @danlistensto

          Survivorship bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias#/media/File:Survivorship-bias.png …

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Sep 11
          Replying to @Plinz @danlistensto

          I noted that possibility, but the issue is there are no cases I'm aware of to support your turn-on tune-out drop-out theory. Further, if judged socially undesirable, the tendency to elect that course could itself plausibly be gene-engineered away.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Derek‏ @PereGrimmer Sep 11
          Replying to @PereGrimmer @Plinz @danlistensto

          *tune-in

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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