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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire

      let me devil's advocate for a minute though. the critique is often about the existence of systems where the only notion of "fair and square" is one with a huge systemic bias built-in as with the blindfolded boxer. the complaint is about lack of alternatives.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Then the correct response is that the rules are unacceptable. Which is quite often true.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto

      The time to do that is *before the game begins.* For instance, consider the late unpleasantness. When HRC was assumed by nearly everyone to be the winner in all but name months before the election was even held, I didn't hear any bitching about the Electoral College.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto

      If you don't complain about the rules until it's clear that they are going to make you lose, you lose the moral authority to claim that your opponent did not win fair and square.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire

      disagree. it makes you a hypocrite, which is considered an unpleasant character flaw sometimes, but it has no real bearing on the moral claim.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Hypocrites do not have the moral authority to complain about things they are being hypocritical about in my opinion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire

      sure they do, you just are less receptive to it because you're turned off by their hypocrisy. if they're correct about the critique though, the fact that they've been venal or opportunistic in the past doesn't negate their correct critique.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @danlistensto

      I didn't say it did. I said they lack moral authority. I used that phrase consciously, purposefully, and intentionally.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire

      I think you're using your notion of moral authority as grounds for censorship then. "lacks moral authority" under your usage means "should not speak about this" which I disagree with. they should speak, and if confronted with their past inconsistency, should reconcile too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Doing the latter FIRST would help them regain some moral authority. However, to a first approximation absolutely no one ever does that. And also, I would never argue they should not be allowed to speak. I just don't think anybody should listen to them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 15
      Replying to @legalinspire

      this is the core of our disagreement. I have a strong preference to evaluate the statement itself (at least insofar as I can glean its intended meaning in context) without respect to whom the speaker is

      9:06 AM - 15 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
          Replying to @danlistensto

          In my experience such statements in this context will either be trivially obvious (in which case we don't need their additional input) or self-serving attempts to deflect blame and muddy the water.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
          Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto

          This is so pervasively true that the theoretical rare exception is so rare as to justify the use of this heuristic to discount the value of their information to zero.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
          Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto

          To phrase it differently, the world is full of useful information: the chance that there is a significant amount which is held *only* by some unrepentant hypocrite somewhere is so low as to not be worth considering. In my opinion.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Marc Whipple - Legal Inspiration!‏ @legalinspire Jun 15
          Replying to @legalinspire @danlistensto

          Whereas the chance that the information they are attempting to provide is *not* useful is so high that it justifies disregarding them. Also in my opinion.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation

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