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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 10
      Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

      the low resolution conglomerations of that constellation of ideas seems to be much more stable in language transmission than the high res versions. in a certain sense (social/political in particular) I think that makes the low res versions more real than the high res versions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 10
      Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies

      so when you get a variety of idea that has very high volatility (as this cluster does) you see really dramatic cognitive dissonance and lossy compression effects and it becomes impossible to engage with the idea on a mass scale. its DoA in popular discourse.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Jun 10
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Yep, couldn't agree more. It is a profound problem that we tend to substitute low-res versions in the wild with high-res versions in our mind whenever we have them - and then dismiss criticism of the low-res ones as wrong and dumb.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    4. John Nerst‏ @everytstudies Jun 10
      Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto

      We must recognize that low-res versions exist and has real consequences. Ideas that don't degrade gracefully are potentially dangerous. But is someone responsible for the deteriorated, roughed up version of their idea? I do *not* want to go there. That way lies darkness.

      3 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
    5. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
      Replying to @everytstudies @danlistensto

      This is a big thing on the intellectual edge of politics. More familiar to me re. genetics and human behavior; some ppl feel this is bad to even think about, because nazis. But equally valid for left idea complexes pomo, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
      Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies @danlistensto

      In political context, often seems pretty clear: nuanced idea: not terrible for my side, but bare idea: bad for my side. That is, some whole approaches, like evo psych, behavior genetics, Darwinian thinking more generally, seem to have built-in political valence.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
      Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies @danlistensto

      This doesn't mean it is impossible to make prog arguments from an evo position. @cognitivepolicy and @David_S_Wilson give it a good go, but it's in uphill slog b/c many smell a bad odor in evo thinking about human behavior, because politics.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
      Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

      Here's something I wrote about evolutionary politics. http://humancond.org/analysis/social/evolutionary_politics …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
      Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

      I really do think that some political valence is built-in, but once a field is abandoned to the enemy, this also creates bias in what stories are told from that perspective. Eg. evo thinking is incremental rather than revolutionary, primes us to explain the value of status quo.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
      Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

      I'm trying to think of how to respond to that idea "political valence is built-in" and struggling to know how to phrase my objection. I need to take a step back from the current round of the culture war and collect my thoughts on this further I guess.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
      Replying to @danlistensto @robamacl and

      my instinct here is to say that the science itself can't possibly be inherently political, only the applications and policies that draw from that science are political. e.g. the fact that uranium is fissile is not political but possessing fission bombs is.

      6:56 AM - 11 Jun 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @robamacl and

          so in the case of evolution it's not the fact of transmission of heritable traits through the genome that's political. it's the idea of a state eugenics policy affecting reproductive freedom that is. that's not a policy that ANYONE (in power) is promoting though, afaik.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @robamacl and

          what I have trouble understanding is the the doctrinal adoption of slippery slope hyper-vigilance by those on the left. I find the right wing Christian fundamentalist objection to be a lot easier to understand (they have a religious doctrine directly undermined by the facts).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies and

          I'm saying that in a tactical political sense they are correct in doing so. There is more to lose than gain in opening that can of worms. As Marx said, they seek not to understand the world, but to change it.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
          Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

          there's a lot of collateral damage. suppose there are gene therapies that have to be administered in utero to be effective? or what about people that voluntarily have gene tests to see if they're recessive carriers of genetic diseases?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies and

          Pffft, nuance. We're talking about the degraded generally comprehensible version, remember?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
          Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

          fair point. how much nuance does it take to convince people that the cure for cancer is probably going to be a gene therapy?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Rob MacLachlan‏ @robamacl Jun 11
          Replying to @danlistensto @everytstudies and

          It's ok if they do evo thinking about populations of cells, and don't draw any political conclusions. Sure ppl will line up for cancer gene therapy.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 11
          Replying to @robamacl @everytstudies and

          ok, so thought experiment is needed here. compare and contrast: CRISPR style adult gene editing vs. germ-line gene hacking that is only expressed in the children. the former "cures" cancer like an anti-biotic cures strep throat. the latter prevents cancer inter-generationally.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 2 more replies

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