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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      there's the rub. being able to sustain civil society under conditions of constant argument and resource contention doesn't sound great, or even possible really. makes me think we need a better framework is needed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Do you have any proposals, or even vague hints of proposals?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      a vague hint. I view wealth and income inequality as a necessary but undesirable byproduct of the system that creates enormous wealth in the first place. in other words, it's a form of pollution. rather than try to engineer a system that doesn't produce inequality we should (1/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      clean up the inequality pollution that it does create since we don't want to suffer the (social) environmental degradation that it causes. this is explicitly an argument for a variety of social democracy or welfare capitalism. getting the details right is the hard part (2/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      its unavoidable that we must in some fashion redistribute resources as a part of the inequality pollution clean-up. there are lots of mistakes that could be made while trying to do this though and my own understanding of it is limited enough that I hesitate to say more (3/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      I like broad-based policy proposals like UBI because avoiding particular favoritism seems psychologically healthier to me. I hope that it's also more efficient too but I don't actually know if it is. I want ameliorative policy that doesn't exacerbate other problems (4/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      finally, I don't think that solving material resource distribution problems is sufficient. it's necessary, but not sufficient to achieve a more satisfactory/integral social fabric and that's what we really need. ultimately I think the problem is a spiritual one though (5/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      I don't mean that everyone should join a church (or any other institution or organization). I mean that confronting the reality of the world and it's history is identical with eating the shadow, or processing our karma, or any other psycho-social metaphor you like. (6/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      addressing material issues first is probably good pragmatic policy. less things to distract from grappling with these spiritual problems. racial resentment and youth alienation are not really going to be solved by a check in the mail every month though. (7/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      it seems to me that really the issue is the desire to grasp and control everything. spiritual solution means accepting, eventually, with difficulty, that not everything can be controlled and that the past can't be changed. justice doesn't mean revenge. (8/N)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      there is NOTHING that can be done to repair the misdeeds of the past. there will be misdeeds committed in the future as well. count on it. we can organize ourselves to offer alms and aid for those in need but that should not be contingent upon past injury. that isn't justice (9/N

      10:29 AM - 7 Jun 2018
      • 1 Like
      • James Tiberius Stone
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          restoration of a sense of dignity and trust in institutions is necessary to heal the spiritual injury our society has suffered. economic justice is a good first step but only because it is the humane thing to do, not because it is sufficient. it can't possibly be. (10/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          the only thing I know of that can restore the sense of dignity in an individual is addressing the monkey-mind. status games, social maneuvering, holier-than-thou performed pieties, ideological purity tests, and language control schemes are all monkey trouble and must stop (11/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          monkey trouble is the origin of social injustice. reversing the polarity of the monkey trouble will not result in social justice. accepting the past and finding common cause amongst community members working for shared dignity is my vague hint of a solution. (Fin)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto

          I agree with much of this. I'd like to see the "spiritual" talk operationalized in empirical language, but spiritual language is not bad while we work all that out. There are different kinds of monkey trouble, and getting all monkeys to lower weapons at the same time is a trick.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego

          operationalizing it usually involves suggestions for spiritual practice, which I don't do for masses of people writ large. it's always a personal, pragmatic thing.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto

          I've heard rumors of shortcuts, but they are all schedule-1. 🤣

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego

          (between you and me the rumors are credible)

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. End of conversation

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