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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      (If I sound like I've been repeating myself some lately, I apologize. These issues are highly charged, and I'm searching for the best way to frame and word things.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      what is a fair system, in principle? what is a fair system, in practice? has there ever been a fair system? if not, would be willing to speculate why not? if yes, why did that system go away?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Personally, I'd be attracted to a system that was consistent with Rawls's framework, with agents being a little more risk-tolerant than his proposed agents were. We've never had a system that fair. Why not? Because we've been backing our way toward it an inch at a time.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      > limited only by the notion that the liberty of any one member shall not infringe upon that of any other member this is the hinge it breaks on though, right? we don't have anything close to agreement upon what degree of liberty an individual may have and at what cost.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      i.e. there are many who vehemently believe that possession of capital is the fundamental notion of liberty (I disagree, but there it is) and that infringement upon their possession of capital is infringement upon their liberty. undermines Rawlsian fairness.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      that extreme of a position is incompatible with fairness. how can it be moderated without throwing out the baby with the bathwater? I'm assuming we both agree that Jeffersonian "unalienable right to pursuit of happiness" is operative here.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Life, limb, freedom from bondage (so you can pursue happiness), . . . nearly everyone would include these. After that you reveal what kind of individualist you are. There's something of a nested doll structure here . . .

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

      Naked economic Individualists add property and freedom of contract, Classical liberals take those and add freedom of speech, assembly, religion, etc. Modern liberals take all of those and add positive rights, such as for education and health care . . .

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

      . . . the more you add, the more trade-offs have to be made in terms of already existing rights.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

      I would imagine that we will always be arguing over where exactly to draw the lines, and which trade-offs are worth making.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      there's the rub. being able to sustain civil society under conditions of constant argument and resource contention doesn't sound great, or even possible really. makes me think we need a better framework is needed.

      9:04 AM - 7 Jun 2018
      • 1 Like
      • James Tiberius Stone
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto

          Do you have any proposals, or even vague hints of proposals?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego

          a vague hint. I view wealth and income inequality as a necessary but undesirable byproduct of the system that creates enormous wealth in the first place. in other words, it's a form of pollution. rather than try to engineer a system that doesn't produce inequality we should (1/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          clean up the inequality pollution that it does create since we don't want to suffer the (social) environmental degradation that it causes. this is explicitly an argument for a variety of social democracy or welfare capitalism. getting the details right is the hard part (2/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          its unavoidable that we must in some fashion redistribute resources as a part of the inequality pollution clean-up. there are lots of mistakes that could be made while trying to do this though and my own understanding of it is limited enough that I hesitate to say more (3/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          I like broad-based policy proposals like UBI because avoiding particular favoritism seems psychologically healthier to me. I hope that it's also more efficient too but I don't actually know if it is. I want ameliorative policy that doesn't exacerbate other problems (4/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          finally, I don't think that solving material resource distribution problems is sufficient. it's necessary, but not sufficient to achieve a more satisfactory/integral social fabric and that's what we really need. ultimately I think the problem is a spiritual one though (5/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          I don't mean that everyone should join a church (or any other institution or organization). I mean that confronting the reality of the world and it's history is identical with eating the shadow, or processing our karma, or any other psycho-social metaphor you like. (6/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          addressing material issues first is probably good pragmatic policy. less things to distract from grappling with these spiritual problems. racial resentment and youth alienation are not really going to be solved by a check in the mail every month though. (7/N)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 9 more replies

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