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danlistensto's profile
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop
@danlistensto

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Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop

@danlistensto

Moloch's janitor

Joined August 2014

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    1. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      1/5 With social justice activism we are seeing what happens when you go first in a $10 ultimatum game and offer $3.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Show this thread
    2. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      2/5 Even if the deal on offer is better than a descent into the chaos of identity politics, they'll be damned if they're going to accept $3 while we get $7.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Show this thread
    3. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      3/5 Most activists are playing identity politics only because they perceive our existing order of Liberal Individualism to be playing identity politics against them. Help them trust that the system is not discriminating, and they will gladly sign back on to MLK's dream.

      2 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
      Show this thread
    4. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      4/5 This is not to say every activist grievance is legitimate or every demand reasonable. Parts of their analysis might be based on faulty assumptions. And the system might be more fair in some ways than it appears.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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    5. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      5/5 But it's also clearly still unfair in many ways. And I think we'll find that, if we make a good faith effort to fix even just the most obvious legitimate problems, some of the more outrageous demands will subside.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
      Show this thread
    6. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7

      (If I sound like I've been repeating myself some lately, I apologize. These issues are highly charged, and I'm searching for the best way to frame and word things.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      Show this thread
    7. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      what is a fair system, in principle? what is a fair system, in practice? has there ever been a fair system? if not, would be willing to speculate why not? if yes, why did that system go away?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto

      Personally, I'd be attracted to a system that was consistent with Rawls's framework, with agents being a little more risk-tolerant than his proposed agents were. We've never had a system that fair. Why not? Because we've been backing our way toward it an inch at a time.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @Evolving_Ego

      > limited only by the notion that the liberty of any one member shall not infringe upon that of any other member this is the hinge it breaks on though, right? we don't have anything close to agreement upon what degree of liberty an individual may have and at what cost.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
      Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

      i.e. there are many who vehemently believe that possession of capital is the fundamental notion of liberty (I disagree, but there it is) and that infringement upon their possession of capital is infringement upon their liberty. undermines Rawlsian fairness.

      8:46 AM - 7 Jun 2018
      • 1 Like
      • James Tiberius Stone
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan listens to rain falling on the rooftop‏ @danlistensto Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto @Evolving_Ego

          that extreme of a position is incompatible with fairness. how can it be moderated without throwing out the baby with the bathwater? I'm assuming we both agree that Jeffersonian "unalienable right to pursuit of happiness" is operative here.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @danlistensto

          Life, limb, freedom from bondage (so you can pursue happiness), . . . nearly everyone would include these. After that you reveal what kind of individualist you are. There's something of a nested doll structure here . . .

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

          Naked economic Individualists add property and freedom of contract, Classical liberals take those and add freedom of speech, assembly, religion, etc. Modern liberals take all of those and add positive rights, such as for education and health care . . .

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

          . . . the more you add, the more trade-offs have to be made in terms of already existing rights.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

          I would imagine that we will always be arguing over where exactly to draw the lines, and which trade-offs are worth making.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. James Tiberius Stone‏ @Evolving_Ego Jun 7
          Replying to @Evolving_Ego @danlistensto

          The system seems to slowly tend toward more fairness over time. We learn which parts of our outcomes are due to our own choices and merit, and which are due to luck, inheritance, and systemic bias, and we try to nudge things away from luck and bias and toward merit and autonomy.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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