Daniel JalkutVerified account

@danielpunkass I agree that safety net makes sense in theory, but have you ever actually seen a case where it would have helped?

@mjtsai I’ve come close to shipping code a few times that would have caused data loss outside the domain of my data.

@danielpunkass OK then. I don't recall ever seeing that with my apps or others, except for the notorious Apple installer that hated spaces.

@mjtsai But think of it as a kind of evolution along the spectrum that led us to protected memory…

@danielpunkass Like I said, it sounds good. But the current implementation is full of bugs and limitations, plus performance penalties.

@mjtsai (Though the performance penalties - I assume you’re alluding to e.g. XPC use? - don’t affect trivially sandboxable apps.)

@danielpunkass Sure they do, e.g. if you have an open/save panel with a delegate.

@danielpunkass Could not disagree more. So buggy, so poorly conceived.

@wilshipley Please file radars if you hit sandboxing bugs. We want to fix them! // @danielpunkass

@grynspan @danielpunkass Like, fundamentally hiding my data files eight folders deep confuses all my customers. It’s a horrible hack.

@wilshipley @grynspan Lots of subtle problems with the container structure, but adding a "Show Data Folder" Help Menu item helps a lot.

@danielpunkass @grynspan But that only helps if people can launch the app (their data isn’t totally corrupted).

@wilshipley @grynspan For purposes of support we may be forced to offer non-sandboxed, dedicated tools.

@danielpunkass That sounds pretty user-hostile if you ask me. // @wilshipley @grynspan

@danielpunkass I hope it's clear that we tried tried really hard, like many months of sandboxing work. I feel like we're failing Apple.

@cabel @danielpunkass I’d love to see a more technical article on the walls you ran into and couldn’t work around.

@bradchoate @danielpunkass Not a bad idea. Top three hurdles: local shell in Terminal, MySQL via local socket, and most recently Git.

@cabel @danielpunkass There are many MySQL/terminal/git tools (Xcode being one) in the store. Are they all getting temporary exemptions?

@bradchoate @danielpunkass In short: I have lived and breathed this and I wish I didn't know any of it. :)

@cabel @danielpunkass Oh I’m sure you’ve exhausted all your options. I know you don’t go down the “build a sync engine” road on a lark.

@bradchoate @danielpunkass Amen. (side trivia: #1 hit for Git in MAS not only not sandboxed, but has blog post about leaving the MAS. :))