Curt Clifton
Allen Pike
@curtclifton @brentsimmons I can see why it’s controversial, but it does fit Swift’s spirit of explicitness and safety.
Very troubling thread on making final default for classes/methods. Swift team seems hostile to app developers. https://lists.swift.org/pipermail/swift-evolution/Week-of-Mon-20151207/000871.html …
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@apike@brentsimmons and lack of concern for developers shipping apps. - View other replies
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@curtclifton@apike@brentsimmons would apple frameworks opting out resolve this for you? -
@raytraced@apike@brentsimmons likely. Also it will be a long time before AppKit and UIKit are Swift. -
@curtclifton maybe a better idea: subclassing a final is a compiler error w/ pragma override to allow it. that would enable the benefits… - View other replies
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@raytraced the trouble with that is the compile time optimizations are lost. Doesn’t bother me, but is antithetical to Swift. -
@curtclifton for the framework or just for the app overriding the framework classes final? the latter would be a fair tradeoff. -
@raytraced for the framework. Framework has to be compiled for dynamic dispatch in case a subclass is introduced. - Show more
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@curtclifton@brentsimmons Aren't non-public classes finalized anyways by whole-module-optimization? Or am I missing the point? -
@Gernot they want to make public classes final by default, taking away a major tool for circumventing framework bugs. - View other replies
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@curtclifton Is there a formal proposal on the repo yet, or is it just in the ML? I don't see it in the accepted or pull requests. -
@Gernot I think it’s just on the mailing list. I was ignoring it as ridiculous, then multiple Apple folks chimed in on the “pro” side.
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@curtclifton@heckj What’s the troubling part? This is a very long thread. -
@wilshipley@heckj blog post forthcoming. Jordan Rose’s response to me today is what set me off.
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@curtclifton@nothe I've been trying to decide whether or not to chime in on that thread :/ I think having a default behavior here is wrong. - View other replies
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@Catfish_Man@nothe I’d love your input. I’m actually less concerned with the proposal than the active discounting of developer concerns.
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@curtclifton@brentsimmons swift-evolution is an open forum where all are free to discuss. The "Swift team" has not weighed in on this -
@dgregor79@brentsimmons thanks, Doug. I appreciate that perspective. What I most want is to call more app devs to the discussion.
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@curtclifton are you perhaps being hostile toward the swift team? The evolution list is primarily swift users suggesting improvements. -
@dwaite (1) yes, that’s possible, blog post forthcoming. (2) they aren’t all improvements, not by a __long__ shot.
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the 2 and the 4
Gernot
Wil Shipley
David Smith
Doug Gregor
David Waite
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