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colmmacc's profile
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
@colmmacc

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Colm MacCárthaigh

@colmmacc

AWS, Apache, Crypto, Irish Music, Haiku, Photography

Seattle
notesfromthesound.com
Joined April 2008

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    1. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      So I make this request, and it times out ... well fuck. Did it time out before or after adding one? Shit, what do I do? Oh I know, I'm going to query for the current value, and it's not what I expect, I'm going to go again.

      1 reply 0 retweets 16 likes
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    2. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      Welcome to basically how every distributed TRANSACTION PROTOCOL works, even things like PAXOS and RAFT and MULTI-PHASE COMMIT use waiting and polling sometimes. What they don't assume is that ... AT ANY MOMENT A MISCREANT ON THE NETWORK MIGHT JUST RESEND THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE.

      1 reply 0 retweets 28 likes
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    3. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      That would be CRAZY, because they USE TLS, and the S in TLS stands for "SECURITY" and that includes things like "THOU SHALT NOT MAKE MESSAGES REPLAYABLE".

      1 reply 2 retweets 22 likes
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    4. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      Now the TLS1.3 people are still like BUT WE WANT SPEED, SO JUST DEAL WITH IT. And the distributed systems people are like IDEMPOTENCY IS REALLY HARD, WE MEAN IT. But wait, it turns out that we can actually get anti-replay and forward secrecy back, and keep 0-RTT, how ....

      1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
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    5. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      The answer is for the server not to use key-in-a-key BS. Instead if the server just remembers the key, let's a client use it ONCE, and deletes it when it's done ... we get FORWARD SECRECY and ANTI-REPLAY. REJOICE!!!

      2 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
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    6. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      .... except it costs the server money. It has to cache more keys, and it's not easy to distribute across wide geographic areas, and comes with its own distributed systems challenges. But guess what? THAT'S ALL THE TLS SERVER'S PROBLEM.

      1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
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    7. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      ... no need to modify thousands of applications, no need to teach PHP and RubyOnRails developers the intricacies of idempotency edge cases. Nope, just one slightly costly change within the TLS1.3 servers. So that's my plan, and REJOICE again, because TLS1.3 can have secure 0-RTT

      1 reply 0 retweets 27 likes
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    8. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      .... unless some TLS servers would cut corners, and just want the fast benchmarks, and you know .... deploy TLS1.3 0-RTT without built-in SAFETY mechanisms. That would be INSANE, I mean, why risk bugs and side-channels, right?

      2 replies 4 retweets 31 likes
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    9. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 26 Mar 2018
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      Oh right, no that's exactly what's happening. So here's my advice: if you see a server supporting 0-RTT and that server doesn't give you an iron-clad guarantee that when the key is used, it's deleted, and that your EARLY CONVERSATION can't be repeated ... don't use it.

      6 replies 21 retweets 79 likes
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    10. radiotrophy wife‏ @maullusc 27 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @colmmacc

      Isn't introducing 0-RTT anyway, even knowing it won't be secure when servers cut corners (which many will do), basically the same as openly sacrificing security in this "secure" protocol? Considering how widely used TLS1.3 will be, this seems clearly immoral and deceptive to me

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 27 Mar 2018
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      Replying to @maullusc

      Sacrificing security ... YES. Deceptive ... YES. Immoral ... YOU DECIDE. 0-RTT will save time and energy, at scale I'm sure it could even REDUCE GLOBAL WARMING (seriously). My preference was to ban STEKs and enforce Single-Use Tickets, but it wasn't to be.

      12:10 AM - 27 Mar 2018
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        2. radiotrophy wife‏ @maullusc 27 Mar 2018
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          Replying to @colmmacc

          Possibly—that bandwidth will probably just be used for other things instead, though. So sure, faster internet is nice, but I'm certainly not convinced it's nice enough to justify anyone who can see your traffic to be able to replay your every action

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. radiotrophy wife‏ @maullusc 27 Mar 2018
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          Replying to @maullusc @colmmacc

          Not to mention the environmental impact of the additional computational power and traffic required to run the secure distributed TLS1.3 servers

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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