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colmmacc's profile
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
@colmmacc

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Colm MacCárthaigh

@colmmacc

AWS, Apache, Crypto, Irish Music, Haiku, Photography

Seattle
notesfromthesound.com
Joined April 2008

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    1. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      With EDNS0 enabled, the client can include a little fake sort of record that says "hey, I support EDNS0, and also I'm good if you send me large UDP responses ... up to 4,000 bytes, say".

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
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    2. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      If a server also supports EDNS0, it can just send larger UDP responses, rather than truncating and falling back to TCP. We're now nearing the top of the rollercoaster.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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    3. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      What happens when we send a large UDP response? Well as we saw earlier the UDP and IP headers both have length fields. The way it works out is that fragmentation actually happens at the IP layer ...

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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    4. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      Suppose we try to send a 4,000 byte UDP datagram over a 1500 byte MTU IP network, what happens is that it gets broken into 3 IP "fragments". The first contains the first part of the UDP message, including the UDP header itself, and the next packets follow on from there.

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    5. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      Each fragment will have the same IP "identification" header (IPID) and different fragment offsets. It's the kernel's job to wait for all of the fragments to show up and pass them on to an application.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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    6. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      Path MTU discovery works the same as with TCP. If the first fragment is too big, the sender will get an error. But since applications usually don't retry UDP responses, it can also just show up as that message being entirely dropped.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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    7. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      It also means that fragments of the message look strange to many parts of the network, like firewalls and switches. UDP packets without UDP headers! How are they supposed to know whether the packet is allowed or not? How is flow-switching supposed to work? The internet shrugs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
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    8. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      We often end up building in the ability to relate these packets to one another in many places, and since that's expensive, they also have to be rate-limited. It's deeply messy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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    9. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      That's what's going on down there though, and understanding that full picture is key to diagnosing some common network mysteries. O.k. I have a team meeting now, more later!

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
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    10. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      Meeting postponed! o.k. so what happens when the DNS server sends a 4K response and the MTU is 1200 bytes? Well the DNS server gets the error, and it fixes the *next* response, but that first is lost. Super annoying. So the client has to retry, but then it works.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
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      Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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      Some more fun: network paths don't have to be symmetrical, so MTUs don't either. If the client needs to send a large amount of data, this whole process happens for them too. A sender and a receiver can legitimately end up with different limits towards one another.

      11:37 AM - 4 Feb 2020
      • 1 Retweet
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      • Yasuhiro Morishita Luke Miller Jona Christopher Sahnwaldt Fernando 🐼 Miguel Chris Sylcox (home version) Q 🧚🏼‍♂️
      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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          Because MTU discovery depends on state, and on ICMP messages being allowed, some folks do something like "MSS clamping" where for TCP they have the network actually meddle with the TCP connection (a little) to offer a different MSS to the other end.

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        3. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc Feb 4
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          It is surprising that the Internet works.

          9 replies 27 retweets 157 likes
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        4. End of conversation
        1. Todd Segal 🦖‏ @Todd_Segal Feb 19
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          Replying to @colmmacc

          ...and then HTTP/2 comes along and introduces its own flow control spec on top of TCP with zero guidance for implementation. Oh, and H/2 flow control is credit based whereas TCP's is not....

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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