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colmmacc's profile
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
Colm MacCárthaigh
@colmmacc

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Colm MacCárthaigh

@colmmacc

AWS, Apache, Crypto, Irish Music, Haiku, Photography

Seattle
notesfromthesound.com
Joined April 2008

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    1. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      The main takeaways are to do exponential backoff and add some random jitter. Do that and the recovery will go more quickly. O.k. so what am I tweeting about?

      1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes
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    2. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      There's a challenge with this kind of backoff; it works well only if everyone, or at least "nearly everyone", does it. A single client could decide to be more greedy and retry more aggressively - and it's sort of in their interest.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
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    3. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      If everyone else is well behaved, that greedy client will probably get service more quickly, they'll jump the queue basically. But the overall recovery will be slowed down a bit by the aggressive tactics. Then, if this behavior spreads, it's disaster.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
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    4. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      Everyone retrying aggressively makes the whole situation worse, for everyone. It's a "tragedy of the commons" - everyone acting in their own narrow self-interest actually makes everyone worse off in the end.

      2 replies 0 retweets 17 likes
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    5. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      I often think of airport baggage belts, where people compete and huddles to get closer to the belt; we'd all be better off if we *all* just stood back a few meters. Clearer views, easier access, easier exit.

      2 replies 4 retweets 27 likes
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    6. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      Many distributed systems really rely on this kind of community oriented cooperation. TCP, BGP, the Web, e-commerce, Cloud Services. All have examples where a kind of codified socialism, fairness and restricting individual competition, keep the systems safe and cost-effective.

      2 replies 2 retweets 17 likes
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    7. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      It needn't be like that; industries don't have to co-operate! Stock markets are the opposite, where there's a costly (maybe wasteful) race to be the fastest and try very aggressively, producing HFT.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
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    8. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      Blockchains are another example, where there is deliberate aggressive competition, and it's even exploited to drive a perverse consensus based on mutual mistrust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
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    9. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      Anyway, back to the tragedy of commons! Afaik, no-one has really found a robust solution to this beyond blocking mis-behaving clients before they spread, which also comes at expense.

      4 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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    10. Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      IME, how it "really" works is that the folks who builds clients and services have a sort of code of honor system. Everyone recognizes that it would be a wasteful race to the bottom, and mostly self-policing works. So browsers, SDKs, etc ... all do sane, safe, decent things.

      1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
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      Colm MacCárthaigh‏ @colmmacc 29 Jan 2019
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      I don't really have a big technical lesson there, I just find it fascinating that huge sections of the economy can get by like that. It's very inspiring and reassuring! /EOF

      8:03 PM - 29 Jan 2019 from Seattle, WA
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      • bryantcutler Cameron Durham ramin k Frank Joan Justin 👨‍💻 tinyrobots 黒田 東彦 stan 🚫🛬5️⃣-gon Scott Piper
      4 replies 1 retweet 35 likes
        1. Sean O'Donnell‏ @seanodonnell 30 Jan 2019
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          If you provide an API, provide a great client that implements good client behavior. Most bad API consumers are busy, not malicious. Make doing the right thing the easiest path.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Alex Clemmer  🔥 🔥 🔥 😅 🔥 🔥 🔥‏ @hausdorff_space 29 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @colmmacc

          this is sort of the point of envoy et Al, no? rather than distributing retry implementation across a thousand snowflake clients you source it to a transparent proxy. teams still have to set this effectively but at least networking admins can audit and complain

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Alex Clemmer  🔥 🔥 🔥 😅 🔥 🔥 🔥‏ @hausdorff_space 29 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @hausdorff_space @colmmacc

          this can be extended to be a policy based networking solution eg istio which for many teams solves this problem mostly

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. Julio‏ @faermanj 30 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @colmmacc

          Truly interesting! But if this is everyone's issue, shouldn't it be on the protocol instead of clients? I remember FT CORBA, is it time for FT HTTPS?

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        2. Daniel Bilar‏ @daniel_bilar 31 Jan 2019
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          Replying to @colmmacc

          @threadreaderapp Kindly unroll

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        3. Thread Reader App‏ @threadreaderapp 31 Jan 2019
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          Hello please find the unroll here: Thread by @colmmacc: "Rare evening technical thread: about distributed systems, exponential backoff, and the tragedy of the commons problem. L […]" https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1090453892687523847.html … Share this if you think it's interesting. 🤖

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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