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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 14
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @Nadagast

      Collaborative editors are a bad example here because they were (at least until "CRDTs" became the fad) built on the "operational transform" model, which means they run off-line and sync, effectively. So the server side does not need to be in the edit loop.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
    2. Mark Nadal‏ @marknadal Oct 14
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @Nadagast

      Hey Jonathan & Casey, I and @martinkl build CRDTs for a living, & even convinced ex-Google-Wave engineer @josephgentle to switch from OT to CRDTs. I'd love to help/podcast/explain CRDTs if you need! Especially the best one for live games. https://gun.eco/distributed/matters.html …

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 14
      Replying to @marknadal @Jonathan_Blow and

      Personally I don't think either are very good so you're on your own there :)

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Oct 14
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      I have no experience with these, but they look like general abstractions intended to be used in situations where you need to go the other way, and get specific, to achieve good performance.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    5. Mark Nadal‏ @marknadal Oct 14
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori and

      deadreckoning and all other distsys stuff can be thought of as CRDTs. (I hate jargon, btw) It is just math that makes sure game state does not diverge while latency happens. Casey, what's the alternative? (assuming no centralized server)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @marknadal @Jonathan_Blow and

      CRDTs and DR are completely different. Dead reckoning is a prediction algorithm that attempts to guess what information will eventually arrive at the node, and that information is then overwritten by the true information when it arrives...

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      CRDTs are commutative information groups where new information arriving at a node is aggregated, and that the semantics are such that if the same set of information (in any order) arrives at any node, that node will have the same resulting state.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      For the simplest possible example, an incrementing counter as a CRDT is just the collection of values received, and the state of the CRDT is the sum. Thus, sums arrive in any order, and if any two nodes receive the same set of values, they will (obviously) add to the same sum.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      But a "dead reckoning" counter is a single value that is the current sum, and then an estimate, probably based on the short-term derivative, about what the sum will probably be in a few milliseconds. The correct sum will arrive from an authority, and replace the estimated sum.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      These are completely unrelated concepts and share nothing in common.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
      Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

      They also aren't trying to solve the same problem. CRDTs are trying to solve the peer-to-peer synchronization problem by removing any actual attempt at synchronization. Dead reckoning is trying to reduce the apparent latency of synchronization by using estimated future values.

      12:12 AM - 15 Oct 2021
      • 1 Like
      • Maksim Volkau
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
          Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

          A system that uses CRDTs could in fact still use DR if it wanted to. The DR on a CRDT system would be a predictor that tried to guess what information would arrive at the node in the next few milliseconds, and speculatively append that information to the CRDT for display.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 15
          Replying to @cmuratori @marknadal and

          When the true information arrived, it would revert the append and insert the actual information received from the peer.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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