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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Sören Meyer-Eppler‏ @BuschnicK Oct 3
      Replying to @cmuratori

      I'm curious about what made you arrive at this requirement?

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @BuschnicK

      Which part? The 10gbs or the ECC RAM?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Sören Meyer-Eppler‏ @BuschnicK Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori

      ECC.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @BuschnicK

      Since we cannot do large RAM surveys (we're a small company), we rely on multiple papers from ~2010 (including by your employer :) that detail the failure patterns and frequency of bit errors in RAM modules.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

      Based on the rates observed, it was very clear that the extra cost of ECC RAM more than pays for itself, since fault-tolerant software in the face of random bit errors is very CPU-intensive, and honestly I'm not sure it can even be done in all cases.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Sören Meyer-Eppler‏ @BuschnicK Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori

      Sure. It just seemed like a curious thing to ask for explicitly. I thought there might have been some rationale behind it in terms of application needs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @BuschnicK

      One non-obvious thing that happens is that the more efficient your program is, the worse non-ECC is. Fatty systems have a lot more bits that don't actually do anything. The more optimized your system is, the more likely it is that a random bit error is dangerous.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

      A typical production system today has so much garbage code in it, that there is a massive bit surface where any particular bit flip does not actually do anything but potentially crash the interpreter / exe.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

      A very efficient system is a very tiny bit of code and a very large amount of data, and if that data is all tight and well-organized, a very large portion of it is "important".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

      You then have a problem whereby you have to start modeling what will happen should a bit flip affect any number of difficult-to-correct things, and you have to implement a lot of, for example, hash trees across basically everything.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
      Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

      Because literally any control structure in the entire system that is not hash-verified is now a critical failure point.

      1:55 PM - 4 Oct 2021
      • 1 Like
      • DoerCreator
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Oct 4
          Replying to @cmuratori @BuschnicK

          With ECC, it seems to me that you can be much more selective about what you verify and what you don't, because the undetected error rates are vastly more favorable.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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