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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Aug 13

      [1/*] If we take the chance that a tool (compiler, linker, batch, whatever) remains working for a particular codebase after one year as a given probability p, then the chance that build remains working after x years is p^xn, where n is the number of tools used in the build.

      18 replies 76 retweets 265 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Sebastian Sylvan‏ @ssylvan Aug 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @JoshuaBarczak

      This assumes that the probability of a tool failing in any given year is the same, but that's almost certainly not true is it? Something is much more likely to break in the first year (or first month) than it is in year 10.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Aug 13
      Replying to @ssylvan @JoshuaBarczak

      At this risk of stating the obvious, _that is what a probability assignment is_. Just pick the average probability, whatever you're comfortable with. For these kinds of graphs you do not need to model the behavior you're talking about, it doesn't matter.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    4. Sebastian Sylvan‏ @ssylvan Aug 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @JoshuaBarczak

      While I agree with the general "long tail" issue you're describing, I don't think I agree that this behavior doesn't matter. It absolutely does. If most tools fail in the first month vs if it fails with uniform probability over ten years, makes a huge difference.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Sebastian Sylvan‏ @ssylvan Aug 13
      Replying to @ssylvan @cmuratori @JoshuaBarczak

      In the former case, you can try something and if it doesn't work out you've only lost a month's worth of stuff built on top of it. In the latter, you could have years worth of stuff built on top.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Sebastian Sylvan‏ @ssylvan Aug 13
      Replying to @ssylvan @cmuratori @JoshuaBarczak

      So once you take that into account, the simple exponential graphs you make don't really match reality anymore, because the flaky tools get pruned early and stop causing issues.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Aug 13
      Replying to @ssylvan @JoshuaBarczak

      We definitely don't live in that reality, so I'm not sure I'm that concerned about it :) But in general these graphs actually paint a much rosier picture than they should, even so. If you actually wanted to measure failure rates, it has to be pair-wise.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Aug 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @ssylvan @JoshuaBarczak

      So at the point where you want to accurately model software failure, you have to make a much more complicated model, that is true.

      6:26 PM - 13 Aug 2021
      • 5 Likes
      • Akhil Kumar Ivan Braidi Rytis BlueGhost 🌐 Túlio 🇧🇷
      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sebastian Sylvan‏ @ssylvan Aug 13
          Replying to @cmuratori @JoshuaBarczak

          So on the one hand, lots of software just sits dormant and keeps working year after year without bothering anyone. On the other hand, I intuitively and experientially agree with you that accumulating dependencies is bad for stability. Not sure about the math like that though.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Aug 13
          Replying to @ssylvan @JoshuaBarczak

          I mean I think honestly the basic equation does pretty much tell you that, though. In my experience, things with no dependencies written in old languages (ergo, the language isn't a dependency) tend to "just work". Things in evolving languages with lots of dependencies don't.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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