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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @meglio @wisam910 and

      I guess I'm not sure what you are talking about now. You were citing "Fact and Fallacies of Software Development", which is not about open source software, as evidence for "P2P code reviews". I am simply saying, that is not a useful citation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      If you're asking me how I would organize an open source project where I had no idea who was contributing to it or why, I guess I would say, don't do that? The only software I know that is good is written by small teams of people who are all very good.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      I have never seen a low-bug, high-perf project that relied on code reviewing code from people who are not very good as a strategy. If it has ever worked, I am unaware of the project where it did.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      If someone wants to make the claim that "code reviews are essential to shipping large-team mediocre software", I would not necessarily challenge that assertion.

      1 reply 2 retweets 6 likes
    5. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      If someone wants to make the claim that "code reviews are essential to shipping high-quality software" I would challenge that assertion, because the only high-quality software projects I can think of do not use code reviews.

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      And the flip side - I know hundreds of projects that require code review that are extremely low quality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      So it seems kind of self evident to me that, to the extent that one cares about high-quality software, code reviews as a required thing are probably irrelevant. They may be useful in certain circumstances, but as a rule, I don't think the actual observables support that at all.

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. meglio‏ @meglio Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @wisam910 and

      So leave code reviews as part of education/mentoring only? I mean, if you hire a junior who has good attitude but lack of experience, would you review their code and ask for adjustments?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @meglio @wisam910 and

      I don't have much experience with that particular scenario, so I'm not sure. I would have to do more direct mentoring to have an opinion. I would say, I don't see anything _wrong_ with using code reviews in a teaching process, but, I haven't thought about it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      I guess I would add, as per the usual, that I can't think of any great programmer that I know who got that way by mentorship and code reviews. So again, I'm not sure we have a lot of existence proofs here beyond the "this is what you would do for mediocre software".

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
      Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

      If we're talking about high-quality software, meaning you are training programmers to be excellent, not merely average, then I think we mostly just have to admit that we don't know very much about this.

      7:52 PM - 24 Jul 2021
      • 2 Likes
      • Louis Cruz Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
          Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

          Most of what is commonly distributed as wisdom in this area rather obviously isn't true, because if it was, software wouldn't be so bad. So I think a lot of this stuff needs to be approached more as "everything we currently 'know' must be at least partially wrong".

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 24
          Replying to @cmuratori @meglio and

          Because as an industry we ship, in general, a product whose quality would put the entire industry out of business tomorrow if we were subject to _any_ of the consumer protection laws that apply to other types of business.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
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