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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. KS Sreeram‏ @kssreeram Jul 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @mark_dev_

      Are you using EGCs as the unit for caching glyphs? If so, that might be the real problem. To render many scripts correctly, EGC to glyph mapping must be treated as a many-to-many mapping (called “shaping”). EGC code like utf8proc won’t do that. But Uniscribe presumably does.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    2. KS Sreeram‏ @kssreeram Jul 13
      Replying to @kssreeram @cmuratori @mark_dev_

      This page has some examples. (They use “character” to means EGC!) https://gankra.github.io/blah/text-hates-you/ …

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 13
      Replying to @kssreeram @mark_dev_

      Yes - we already do all that, because as you can see from the demo we handle Arabic, Hindi, Hebrew, etc. That's why it is necessary to do more than simple grapheme clustering.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. KS Sreeram‏ @kssreeram Jul 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @mark_dev_

      I could have communicated better. Refterm does indeed render correctly. It's just a matter of terminology. The clusters from Uniscribe's ScriptItemize/ScriptBreak are not "extended grapheme clusters". They also do "shaping".

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. KS Sreeram‏ @kssreeram Jul 13
      Replying to @kssreeram @cmuratori @mark_dev_

      To do that without Uniscribe, an algorithm for extended grapheme clusters isn't enough. Shaping is needed too. Harfbuzz can do that for example.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. KS Sreeram‏ @kssreeram Jul 13
      Replying to @kssreeram @cmuratori @mark_dev_

      To be more precise, the clustering algorithm must be “shaping” aware. The term “shaping” includes glyph generation/positioning too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 13
      Replying to @kssreeram @mark_dev_

      Yes - I find the terms to be kind of confusing and not well-defined :( So yes, we basically need "shaping-based breaking", meaning that the algorithm needs to tell us where to split inputs on boundaries where the glyphs won't change because of the split.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @kssreeram @mark_dev_

      I guess the easiest way to say it is, we need an algorithm that will tell us where we can safely break inputs into pieces which will not "look different" when broken at those points.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Behdad Esfahbod‏ @behdadesfahbod Jul 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @kssreeram @mark_dev_

      The short answer is that you have to run shaping to know such boundaries. Which... defeats the purpose. But then again, full shaping in a grid-layout is not well-defined... I'll leave a few pointers in the next tweet:

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 13
      Replying to @behdadesfahbod @kssreeram @mark_dev_

      But that's actually fine, because we cache the results. Most of the problem here is just that Uniscribe is not good at letting us control the process. It's entirely possible that switching to something like Harfbuzz would give us the control we need to do the right thing...

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 13
      Replying to @cmuratori @behdadesfahbod and

      Stated more specifically, the ideal solution would just be a state machine that we feed characters to that occasionally says "OK, I found a glyph I can generate definitively" and then it does. And we cache it :)

      6:54 PM - 13 Jul 2021
      • 4 Likes
      • Ivan Braidi Behdad Esfahbod Matias Fernandez Lyle Jantzi III
      0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes

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