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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
      Replying to @al45tair @StevenBHutton and

      Those package managers all look to me like a giant disaster, and the first order of business should be to eliminate all of it. So if you are using that as an example of how to do things well, I am not riding that train.

      2 replies 1 retweet 21 likes
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @al45tair and

      Separately, there was no acknowledgement or rectifying of failure of terrible ideas that were pushed specifically to avoid things like this. So, COM is still here, which was supposed to "solve" the versioning problem, but we _also_ now have package managers. It's truly insane.

      2 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    3. Octave‏ @moskitoc_ Jul 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      What sane ways to deal with versioning and dependencies are you aware of ? It seems to me that the problem itself is unavoidable if you want reusable pieces software that can evolve, but I don't know of environments where it's not a nightmare to deal with.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @moskitoc_ @Jonathan_Blow and

      Just don't. Basically none of the things that are done today with package managers, containers, etc. actually need to be done. A statically linked executable would have worked, it's just people no longer even know how to build such a thing.

      4 replies 2 retweets 39 likes
    5. Federico Bett‏ @fede_cba Jul 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @moskitoc_ and

      The problem with that approach is what happens when for example there is a security issue in the library. If you statically link you need to release a new version. This happened already with openssl for example.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @fede_cba @moskitoc_ and

      But the opposite also already happened with OpenSSL. They _introduced_ HeartBleed in an update. So it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
    7. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @fede_cba and

      It's an interesting point ... let's say I was a State-employed agent wanting to introduce security holes into some program, in a subtle way. If you let me edit dynamic libraries, I have all kinds of attack vectors that are very subtle. I could edit two different libraries

      3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
    8. Stewart Smith  💻 💢‏ @sdryds Jul 11
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori and

      How much do you want to bet this is an actively exploited attack vector because of how obscure it is.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Federico Bett‏ @fede_cba Jul 11
      Replying to @sdryds @Jonathan_Blow and

      Don't bet. It is being exploited now.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Stewart Smith  💻 💢‏ @sdryds Jul 11
      Replying to @fede_cba @Jonathan_Blow and

      Exactly. It's easy enough to do. Wasn't too long ago that a university put _many_ bogus commits into the Linux kernel dev tree. It could have been the ultimate in a "multi-application spanning attack vector"

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @sdryds @fede_cba and

      It may just be paranoia, but I always just assume that (at least) sophisticated state actors already have checked in exploits to, for example, the Linux kernel, and that nobody has figured them out yet. Just seems likely...

      7:23 PM - 11 Jul 2021
      • 2 Likes
      • Stewart Smith 💻💢
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. Federico Bett‏ @fede_cba Jul 11
          Replying to @cmuratori @sdryds and

          There is a black market for zero days exploits. So that's likely the case

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Stewart Smith  💻 💢‏ @sdryds Jul 11
          Replying to @cmuratori @fede_cba and

          I think there's a fine line between thinking someone is paranoid and an unwillingness to acknowledge things out of your control manifesting as defensiveness. These are real problems. The amount of complexity in large applications makes injection/exploit potential easy and likely.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Stewart Smith  💻 💢‏ @sdryds Jul 11
          Replying to @sdryds @cmuratori and

          It's hard to admit that basically all modern sofware depends on highly complex (essentially) black boxes that are out of your control. And on top that the fact they are flawed.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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