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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
      Replying to @al45tair @meglio and

      What do you mean? All high-end games do this as the platforms we ship on are all very different and we need to support them post-release. Branches would be an awful way to do that.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Alastair Houghton‏ @al45tair Jul 11
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @meglio and

      For enterprise software and operating systems, you can’t release updates containing unexpected new code. You pretty much have to branch. Feature flags just aren’t sufficient. (Reality can be quite complicated; e.g. some sub projects might be able to use feature flags.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Steven Hutton‏ @StevenBHutton Jul 11
      Replying to @al45tair @Jonathan_Blow and

      What's "unexpected" code? If the argument is that OS's and enterprise software is too complicated to handle without branches I mean, yeah... shit is at least an order of magnitude too complicated to handle WITH branches which is kind of the problem all over.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Steven Hutton‏ @StevenBHutton Jul 11
      Replying to @StevenBHutton @al45tair and

      I think this approach can be done to effect with large teams on large games where I have some experience. But I have no experience working on huge OS projects. Maybe they HAVE to branch but I'm skeptical.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Alastair Houghton‏ @al45tair Jul 11
      Replying to @StevenBHutton @Jonathan_Blow and

      And as for OS projects, there’s usually a whole other layer over and above “normal” VC. You can see this with the Open Source Linux distos - they have package managers and each version of their distribution has different sets of packages. All have to work together.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
      Replying to @al45tair @StevenBHutton and

      Those package managers all look to me like a giant disaster, and the first order of business should be to eliminate all of it. So if you are using that as an example of how to do things well, I am not riding that train.

      2 replies 1 retweet 21 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @al45tair and

      Separately, there was no acknowledgement or rectifying of failure of terrible ideas that were pushed specifically to avoid things like this. So, COM is still here, which was supposed to "solve" the versioning problem, but we _also_ now have package managers. It's truly insane.

      2 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    8. Octave‏ @moskitoc_ Jul 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      What sane ways to deal with versioning and dependencies are you aware of ? It seems to me that the problem itself is unavoidable if you want reusable pieces software that can evolve, but I don't know of environments where it's not a nightmare to deal with.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @moskitoc_ @Jonathan_Blow and

      Just don't. Basically none of the things that are done today with package managers, containers, etc. actually need to be done. A statically linked executable would have worked, it's just people no longer even know how to build such a thing.

      4 replies 2 retweets 39 likes
    10. Federico Bett‏ @fede_cba Jul 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @moskitoc_ and

      The problem with that approach is what happens when for example there is a security issue in the library. If you statically link you need to release a new version. This happened already with openssl for example.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 11
      Replying to @fede_cba @moskitoc_ and

      But the opposite also already happened with OpenSSL. They _introduced_ HeartBleed in an update. So it's six of one, half dozen of the other.

      6:50 PM - 11 Jul 2021
      • 1 Retweet
      • 9 Likes
      • Andrés Mejía bc1n0 Farhod Miralimov Jonathan Evraire Mateus Fernandes Lyle Jantzi III Zenity 🧢 FallowWing meglio
      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
        1. Federico Bett‏ @fede_cba Jul 11
          Replying to @cmuratori @moskitoc_ and

          Fair point

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
          Replying to @cmuratori @fede_cba and

          It's an interesting point ... let's say I was a State-employed agent wanting to introduce security holes into some program, in a subtle way. If you let me edit dynamic libraries, I have all kinds of attack vectors that are very subtle. I could edit two different libraries

          3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
        3. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 11
          Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori and

          to make a bug that only exhibits in the target application, and is not a change to that source program, and is not an apparent bug in either library. You could make a computer-assisted tool that charts opportunities for likelihood of success and quality level.

          1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
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