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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Tyriar @cmuratori @code

      Did you skip over like half the video, then?

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Daniel Imms‏ @Tyriar Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori @code

      No, did you read my tweets? The emulation is likely the slowest part of Windows Terminal, not the rendering, especially if there's a dedicated render thread. It's why the terminal I maintain is much slower on Windows. Refterm didn't include that emulation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Tyriar @cmuratori @code

      Sorry, I am just seeing excuses. Why do you think a 4GHz computer from 2021 should have trouble with VT100 escape codes from 1978?

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    4. Daniel Imms‏ @Tyriar Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori @code

      I agree with you, and I enjoy your talks on the topic and know you care and are frustrated by the state of performance in software. Once again I agreed with the main issue that the glyphs should be cached. But that doesn't make it not an unfair comparison.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Tyriar @cmuratori @code

      I am trying to get you to take off your Microsoft goggles and just look at this from first principles. How many cycles should it take to handle VT100 escape codes in a console?

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    6. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @Tyriar and

      I am annoyed about this because the kind of stuff you are saying is all I hear from programmers on the internet every day, and the result is that software keeps getting worse and worse, and everyone thinks they are doing great.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    7. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @Tyriar and

      Like do you actually have any evidence, or even any vague pre-evidentiary reason to think that doing VT100 escape codes should in principle be slow for N == (number of text characters on a screen)? Or are you just picking that as a reason why the comparison is "unfair"

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. Jonathan Blow‏ @Jonathan_Blow Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @Tyriar and

      because that's the first thing available you thought of, and if Casey had implemented VT100 escape codes, you would find some other reason it is "unfair"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    9. Daniel Imms‏ @Tyriar Jul 3
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori @code

      He did implement some VT codes, the color demo at the end shows that. What he did not do was run the process through a pseudoterminal which is not native to Windows so it needs to run through the slow an emulation layer which I believe is the real problem here

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Daniel Imms‏ @Tyriar Jul 3
      Replying to @Tyriar @Jonathan_Blow and

      I'd like us to focus on the actual problem rather than "look at these thousands of frames, omg WT so slow". When conpty is slow, it will cause more frames to be rendered. If conpty is fast, less frames get rendered because everything is done already.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 3
      Replying to @Tyriar @Jonathan_Blow @code

      [1/2] Hi Daniel. I thought it would be clear from the video, but I ran refterm both ways: with fast pipes off, it's running through conhost, so the entire super-slow Windows part _is running_. So the 10x speedup over Windows Terminal was _with_ super slow conhost.

      7:59 PM - 3 Jul 2021
      • 4 Likes
      • Kris Borowinski Ivan Braidi Isaac Besora meglio
      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori Jul 3
          Replying to @cmuratori @Tyriar and

          [2/2] The _additional_ 10x speed up with fast pipes (for 100x total) is what happens when you bypass conhost. So a simple way to say it would be, Windows Terminal is _both_ extremely slow _and_ conhost is extremely slow, each for about a 10x hit that combine for a 100x hit.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Daniel Imms‏ @Tyriar Jul 3
          Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @code

          Thanks for the clarification, I was looking at the code trying to verify that but didn't see any of the conpty APIs being touched. But you mentioned ~22:50 that you should measure how splat looks with VT mode turned on which is what confused me - I don't know what good

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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