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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11

      Which makes me really want some kind of VirtualAlloc flag :) I don't think there's any practical reason we can't have close to the 6/0ms case with 4k pages, if it's handled in bulk, rather than as a continuous series of faults?

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
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    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11

      (And just to be clear, the reason I can't "just use 2mb pages" is because you basically can't ship something that uses 2mb pages - it requires the user to do a manual group policy edit to enable!)

      1 reply 0 retweets 18 likes
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    3.  🌱‏ @codaaaaaaaaa May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori

      wait what!? so they added bigger pages to the ISA and we just don't use them?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @codaaaaaaaaa

      Correct. You can see a 2011 legacy explanation from Raymond Chen here: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110128-00/?p=11643 … In my opinion, none of the things he says are true today, but, I guess this part of the kernel has still not been updated since then? I don't know :(

      2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Raymond Chen's Tie‏ @ChenCravat May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @codaaaaaaaaa

      So what would you do if you had to page in a 2MB page when there isn't 2MB of contiguous physical memory?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      I understand that this is apparently a concern, but I'm not sure I understand why. On modern machines that all have 16+gb of memory, is there some reason the OS can't just sub-divide 4k pages from 2mb pages, and evict all 512 4k pages when deciding to swap in a 2mb page?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Raymond Chen's Tie‏ @ChenCravat May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @codaaaaaaaaa

      A device driver may have locked pages for DMA. As my owner noted, you can create artificial pages, but you have to maintain the ruse consistently down to the driver level. And you can get most of the same effect via prefetch.https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/?p=105200 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      I still don't understand how this is relevant. With all 4k pages you still have the problem of locked pages, and have to pick a different page to evict if the one you were going to evict is locked. The rule would just be that if a 4k page is locked inside a 2mb page, it's locked.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 11
      Replying to @cmuratori @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      I fail to see how this is any different whatsoever to the driver having locked the entire 2mb page, which it could have done?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Raymond Chen's Tie‏ @ChenCravat May 12
      Replying to @cmuratori @codaaaaaaaaa

      The system caps the number of locked pages so a driver can't just lock all the memory in the system. The problem here is that just 9 locked pages could prevent a 16GB system from paging in a 2MB page. I'll ask my owner to discuss this further on the blog.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 12
      Replying to @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

      If your owner is so inclined, I have posted an example repository for commentary. When run, it demonstrates the dramatic difference in cold-start performance between 4k and 2mb pages, where 4k pages are often 10x slower, etc.:https://github.com/cmuratori/largepages …

      10:51 AM - 12 May 2021
      • 1 Like
      • Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori May 12
          Replying to @cmuratori @ChenCravat @codaaaaaaaaa

          If your owner happens to find something being done wrong there, I would love to know about it, so I can pass it along to my tie, who does most of the coding around here (I just post its code on github when it tells me to).

          0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
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