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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Jonathan Loiterman‏ @protonperson 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @TimSweeneyEpic

      I’m a lawyer so I get this. Full disclosure, I’m not an anti-trust lawyer, but I am an Apple shareholder. Maybe to far in the weeds for twitter, but what is the legal precedent for saying that iOS is a market unto itself based on what % of gaming revenue it collects?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      [1/2] Well that is kind of the point :) We don't have much in the way of legal precedents for controlled hardware because there haven't been many cases in the modern context of ubiquitous single-company-controlled cell phones. These _will_ be the precedents :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      [2/2] So Apple v. Pepper was about _who_ could sue - and it was a narrow victory for iOS _users_ in that it was 5-4 that they had standing. Now Epic v. Apple is a very clear-cut case that can go to SCOTUS about whether iOS constitutes a "market" or not.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Jonathan Loiterman‏ @protonperson 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @TimSweeneyEpic

      Appreciate the detailed response and citation to cases. I think that’s a first for Twitter Pepper + Illinois Brick are procedural cases abt standing, but what of the substance of the “iOS is market” claim? What is the theory, given so much on iOS can be and is sold elsewhere?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      [1/2] Well, again, this _will be_ the case that decides if it is a market :) Well, that, and the continuing class litigation post Apple v. Pepper, since that case was only on standing, and found in favor of the users. But, if you want to know how markets are defined...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      [2/2] ... the answer is that it is very complicated, and you can easily spend your week doing nothing but reading the precedents :) I don't know what the best primer is, but Googling for a second, here is a survey paper: https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2137&context=facsch_lawrev …

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      Of course the caveat there is that it is from 2007, so it is prior to a number of modern anti-trust cases decided in the last decade. Also, it is worth noting that Epic's suit is in California as well, and brings claims under state law as well as federal law...

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      ... and I know nothing about California state law, so I have no idea what other market definition precedents there might be in that line of cases. It could mirror the Sherman Act exactly, it could be completely different, I have no idea. California often does their own thing :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      But as an aside, I would just add that market definitions for anti-trust are not just about whether someone could go do something completely different (buy another type of phone, etc.). They are more holistic analyses about whether price pressure can be unduly exerted.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      To draw an analogy, _physical_ geographic regions are often considered in traditional anti-trust market definitions. One could clearly draw an analogy to _virtual_ geographic regions...

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

      So just like "well just move out of Illinois" isn't a definitive answer for invalidating a claim against an Illinois monopoly, "just sell your iPhone and buy an Android phone" isn't a definitive answer for invalidating Apple's monopoly on iOS software.

      4:22 PM - 30 Aug 2020
      • 7 Likes
      • Pierre Tim Kane (ⵜⵉⵎoⵜⵀⵢ ⴽⴰⵏⴻ) 🏳️‍🌈 Ed B Andreas Svensson Gino Bales Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 30 Aug 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

          Which brings me back around to where I started, which is to say that a court must decide whether iOS software is its own "market", and how they do that will involve many factors, and I am very happy Epic is asking them to do that, so we can all know what the law is on this front!

          1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
        3. Vivitsu Maharaja‏ @vivitsum 1 Sep 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @protonperson @TimSweeneyEpic

          This is the most accessible and clarifying analysis of the situation I’ve read so far. Thanks!

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation

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