and, clearly even the C64 is not offering you bare metal - C64 BASIC is a third-party HLL! And clearly writing software for a C64 actually sucks (or look at Codetapper’s Amiga copper list deconstructions) despite the fact that it’s doing its best to not be ‘in your way’.
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Bennet, I am not sure if you are being trolly here or just actually don't know that the number of _hardware instructions_ it used to take to draw graphics was literally like ten. Total. INSTRUCTIONS. For example:pic.twitter.com/38lfTW1E8S
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Replying to @cmuratori @bfod and
So like when we used to program DOS stuff, you could literally just start programming. There was no API. You didn't even need a "language". Just a few machine instructions, and you have graphics. That is, I assume, what Jon was talking about, not BASIC.
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Replying to @cmuratori @bfod and
By contrast, the example you posted is probably on the order of several million instructions. I mean I haven't profiled that specific snippet, but I would be shocked if it is anything less. Hopefully you can appreciate that there might be a problem with going from 10^1 to 10^7?
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Replying to @cmuratori @bfod and
Now I never really programmed the C64, so I can't speak for that specifically, but I would be shocked if it took more than a few dozen instructions to draw graphics on that machine. I mean, it couldn't have, it was too slow :)
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I don’t even think your complexity crusade is wrong, but your position would only be stronger if you’d acknowledge the cases where it makes sense to blow 10^7 performance on non-technical gains, imo
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Replying to @bfod @cmuratori and
Casey is cool as hell but +1 this response. They're mutually incompatible, but I like both the 1970s programming culture where "beginner programming is fairly low-level" and the modern culture of "beginner programming is expressive but built on 10 layers of indirection".
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It's obviously possible for one to learn from the other, and I think Jon's programming language and recent moves in C# do so. I hope more people who respect both cultures try their hand at making a language.
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But 1970s cultures DID have beginner languages, even then. That's where BASIC and LOGO came from, and HyperCard in the 80s, etc. The drastic overcomplication of low-level programming has nothing to do with what people do at a high level.
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Replying to @cmuratori @walkerb and
But this discussion, and how it somehow went from Jon saying that _low_-level programming has been ruined to people jumping on here to complain about "cultures" is a good reminder that I need to delete my Twitter account, because it's depressing as hell to read this stuff.
1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
It doesn't make a low-level programmer's life any easier to know that someone can draw a circle in SVG. Like how does that help me? That is helping someone else make _their_ program. It's not helping me in the least, I just still have to suffer with the disaster underneath it.
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Replying to @cmuratori @walkerb and
So I guess the question just becomes, how do I delete me Twitter account _and_ still post news things, and I guess the answer is you just post to a blog and cross your fingers someone posts it for you... but that's probably worth a shot at this point.
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Replying to @cmuratori @bfod and
Sorry Casey. I respect you, Jon, and Bennett all. Although I'd probably forget to check your blog after a month.
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