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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    2. russell‏ @rpjohnst 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @Jonathan_Blow @cmuratori @NoHatCoder

      I'm confused- the "generate+clean up junk" problem is real and huge, but whether you use SSA is orthogonal (on its own it doesn't even *represent* moves) you can generate good SSA directly (e.g. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-3-642-37051-9_6.pdf … instead of llvm-style mem2reg), *or* bad move-y 3AC

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @rpjohnst @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

      Well, it's twitter, so it's hard to discuss, but yet - if you mean "use SSA" to just mean "have an IR that assigns nodes to computed values", sure. But I think Jacob meant "use SSA" as actually generate the SSA version of the code and then start processing it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. russell‏ @rpjohnst 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

      I also meant it as "actually generate the SSA version of the code and then start processing it." The paper I linked is on how to generate a good SSA version of the code directly instead of producing a bunch of garbage along the way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @rpjohnst @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

      But then that is not SSA code is the point. "Generate a good SSA version of the code" is a non-statement. Generate a _non_ SSA version of the code is what you are doing at that point.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @rpjohnst and

      (For example, even in the chapter to which you linked, they do not call it "SSA form", they call it "pruned SSA form".)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. russell‏ @rpjohnst 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

      Pruned SSA *is* SSA. "Pruned" is just a desirable quality for SSA to have. Going from SSA to non-SSA is just register allocation; the chapter is going from source to (pruned, i.e. good) SSA.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. russell‏ @rpjohnst 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @rpjohnst @cmuratori and

      In this case, no actual pruning occurs! They are just producing SSA that already has that property.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @rpjohnst @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

      Not sure how to say this another way. Jon was talking about SSA form as in _before_ doing optimizations on it. So the thing that chapter _started with_. We are _literally talking about the thing that paper does_ as being what you _want_ to do!

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @rpjohnst and

      Eg., we are saying, do not dump your initial SSA into code. Instead, you want to do a bunch of work to make sure you have an optimal set of things first, and _then_ you start with that code.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 1 Apr 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @rpjohnst and

      Obviously you can always call something SSA at any time because EVERY POSSIBLE PIECE OF CODE HAS AN SSA FORM. That is not interesting. Anyway, I give up at this point. I thought it should be relatively clear what everyone was talking about but I guess not :(

      6:16 PM - 1 Apr 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • Bandreus Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. russell‏ @rpjohnst 1 Apr 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @NoHatCoder

          Hm, it seems like we both agree with the paper even if I don't understand your description of it. All I was responding to was the initial claim that "SSA adds in a lot of mov instructions, which are supposed to be optimized away later" because that is not inherent to SSA

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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