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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      Yet another way to say it would be to say that "zero cost abstractions" are often "zero cost" in the same way that watching a movie on Netflix is "zero cost". It's only "zero cost" if you don't count the $15/mo subscription fee, the fact that the selection is limited, etc.

      2 replies 2 retweets 8 likes
    2. Kyle J Strand‏ @BatmanAoD 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      That analogy makes sense to me. Indeed, in C++, "zero cost" usually means "you couldn't have written better C++ by hand", not "you couldn't have written better assembly by hand".

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @BatmanAoD @Jonathan_Blow and

      Again, just to be clear, _you could_ have written better C++ by hand. That was the point of the monomorphization - what the compiler generates is not as good as if you have manually written what you wanted, because you can make better "commonization" tradeoffs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @BatmanAoD and

      "Zero cost" is literally just false. It's not true that it's zero cost over C++, and it's not true that it's zero cost over asm. It's just plain wrong. Things should just be called abstractions, never "zero cost" abstractions because they aren't, and that's that.

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    5. Kyle J Strand‏ @BatmanAoD 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      That's an extremely interesting claim. I have no idea how to evaluate it, though; would you recommend just comparing the assembly generated by template-heavy code to some hand-written code doing the same thing? Do you have an example of a specific resource you could point me to?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @BatmanAoD @Jonathan_Blow and

      Not to beat a dead horse, but evaluating my claim that there _aren't_ "zero cost abstractions" is also approaching the problem the wrong way around. Shouldn't the goal be to evaluate the _original_ claim that there _are_ zero cost abstractions?

      1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @BatmanAoD and

      One thing you will notice if you look at it, is that basically nobody who claims to provide a "zero cost abstraction" ever offers any proof that it is. They just say something like "and the compiler can do it" and that's it. But where is the evidence? Where are the case studies?

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @BatmanAoD and

      The onus shouldn't be on people to prove that something _isn't_ "zero cost", it should be on the people claiming it's "zero cost" to prove that it _is_, right? And that proof is nowhere to be found.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @BatmanAoD and

      And it's worth noting that the original claim is _very_ bold. They're not called "low cost abstractions", they're called "_zero_ cost abstractions". A claim that something is literally free should require a high level of proof. Yet it's quite the opposite.

      3 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    10. Bryan W. Wagner‏ @bryanww 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @BatmanAoD and

      Are you suggesting Google Stadia's "negative latency" is not based on actual time travel science?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 4 Mar 2020
      Replying to @bryanww @BatmanAoD and

      Well we know they don't have actual time travel capabilities at Google because if they did, they would've gone back and scrubbed the Stadia launch.

      9:57 PM - 4 Mar 2020
      • 1 Retweet
      • 21 Likes
      • ivereadthesequel scottjmaddox Casual Squirrel Hilário Martins Brock Henderson Trevor O Farhod Miralimov VisibleButInvisible Ivan Braidi
      1 reply 1 retweet 21 likes
        1. Andrew Johnson‏ @AndrewJDR 4 Mar 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @bryanww and

          Yeah, and google reader never would have existed

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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