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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Jacob Christian Munch-Andersen‏ @NoHatCoder 5 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow and

      Right, the DOM is a shitshow, I'm not gonna say that JavaScript itself isn't, but it is a faster shitshow than most people know. Your example still sounds slow, but it is not completely beyond the expected. If you want I'll give you some pointers to avoid the worst of it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 5 Feb 2020
      Replying to @NoHatCoder @Jonathan_Blow and

      I am actually pretty experienced with JavaScript :) Like I said, I optimized it just fine, and it's OK now. Unfortunately the browser can't really handle 16k DOM objects so it's unclear that I won't have to switch to canvases anyway, but that's a separate issue.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 5 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @NoHatCoder and

      I don't think of JavaScript _the language_ as slow, I think of JavaScript _the object model_ as slow, and it is, pretty much period. If you just wanted to do basic stuff in JavaScript it's fine, even at high load, but if you want to work with structured data it falls apart.

      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. This Tweet is unavailable.
    5. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @fenomas @NoHatCoder and

      The language definition for JavaScript doesn't permit you to do the things you would want to do to make things like style setting fast. Normally in a strongly typed language the JIT would know it could turn a elem.[string] = string assignment into direct code...

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

      ... but in JavaScript, it has no idea what that line means, because it doesn't even know what "elem" is. So the JITs have to resort to heroics where they try to analyze the code to figure out what can be safely turned into fast operations, and what can't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

      A sane scripting language knows this and designs in the minimal amount of "typing" necessary to ensure that you can still have easy-to-read things that a user types, but that the compiler can know definitively what they do. JavaScript fails completely here.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

      Normally you'd just be like "yeah, it's a rookie mistake, it happens". Kinda like with HTML and CSS. But sadly, HTML/CSS/JS, despite all three being rookie mistakes across the board, ended up running the top of the entire world's software stack. So that's where we're at :(

      0 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    9. This Tweet is unavailable.
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @fenomas @NoHatCoder and

      Sigh. Since apparently nobody knows how this stuff works, I will go grab a performance capture to demonstrate :(

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
      Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

      So from Chrome's perf recorder, the "recalc" time is 50ms after the script runs. If I take the script and do the optimized version, it takes ~50ms as well, so it's 50ms/50ms. If I turn up the number of things it sets, and make it set them poorly, it's 423ms/50ms.

      1:17 AM - 6 Feb 2020
      • 2 Likes
      • Ivan Braidi Dominik Madarász
      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

          And if I try to regress it all the way back to the original code that I started with, although I'm not 100% sure exactly what that looked like, it takes 2.67s/50ms. So at least as far as I can tell, the recalc time is always constant.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 6 Feb 2020
          Replying to @cmuratori @fenomas and

          It's just how inefficiently you go about setting things. If you set a bunch of styles and look up elements poorly, and/or make function calls instead of not, etc., you can make the JavaScript take longer and longer but it's not because of the recalc.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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