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cmuratori's profile
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
Casey Muratori
@cmuratori

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Casey Muratori

@cmuratori

I'm worried that the baby thinks people can't change.

Seattle
caseymuratori.com
Joined March 2009

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    1. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @Enichan @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      Well, I suppose it depends on the perspective, but I'm not sure I see how it affects the complexity of the problem in any way one would ordinarily notice. It is literally just "Slot = Serialize(X);" becomes "if(!Table[X]) {Table[X] = Serialize(X);} Slot = Table[X];" Right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Enichan and

      So I would have expected that, especially today where it seems very rare for people to not use prefab containers (std::*, or built-in things in their language), just adding a single table lookup before processing a struct would not be something they would consider "hard"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Eniko Fox‏ @Enichan 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      I've used a few out of the box serialization packages across a variety of languages over the past 10-15 years that had some... interesting edge cases when it came to circular references

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @Enichan @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      What were some of the edge cases?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Eniko Fox‏ @Enichan 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      It's been years, I really can't remember but a quick google turns up stuff like thishttps://stackoverflow.com/questions/44887394/pickle-dill-cannot-handle-circular-references-if-hash-is-overridden …

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    6. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @Enichan @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      Yikes :) That gets back to what Jon was saying, namely that it is difficult (or impossible) to serialize code as opposed to data. I'd assume there is some kind of halting-problem-proof where you can demonstrate that it is impossible to guarantee serialization of arbitrary code...

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Eniko Fox‏ @Enichan 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      Yup, which is kind of what I was trying to explain to people who don't know anything about this stuff. You can't just "save" your in-memory object graph to disk without doing something to it to transform it into pure data first, ...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Eniko Fox‏ @Enichan 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @Enichan @cmuratori and

      and even though that seems like it'd be extremely straight forward to automate it's trickier than you'd think. I probably could've chosen a better example but it was the first that came to mind and I didn't wanna turn a 16 tweet thread into 30 >_>

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @Enichan @Jonathan_Blow @CodeLumpN

      Well, and to be clear, my point with the 2002 serialization was that C serialization was a solved problem two decades ago. It isn't circular references or any other complexity of the graph that's the problem, it's the "OOP"-ness where code is fused with the data.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Enichan and

      Or, stated alternately, "this is an easy problem if you aren't object-oriented, and a potentially impossible one if you are."

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
      Casey Muratori‏ @cmuratori 3 Nov 2019
      Replying to @cmuratori @Enichan and

      And it looks like this discussion has now spilled over to https://discord.gg/VMU3dy7  :)

      9:51 PM - 3 Nov 2019
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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