I've finally gotten around to watching some Jordan Peterson, after seeing someone calling for his 'followers' to be shot. This is an eloquent, rational man, and I've seen a lot of strong evidence that his detractors are a bunch of murderous loons.
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you're doing the thing again, Chaos. When did I say that was particularly acceptable to me? I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.
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the part where the trads are the good guys now because the left is just so bad
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well, if things keep going downhill you must logically agree we will eventually get there, unless the trads also maintain and equal velocity of descent. Which is possible I guess.
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honestly i kind of feel like i have better things to spend my time on than fine tuning my model of whether constipation or diarrhea is worse
End of conversation
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I wasn't speaking normatively, and didn't take Peterson to be speaking normatively. I took it that he was describing the state that has existed throughout much of human history.
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of course he's speaking normatively, this is the arrangement he's arguing for going "back" to (i say "back" because "the state that has existed throughout much of human history" is always fictional) because he's a trad and that's what trads are into
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well the thing is there's a lot of different types of trads. I think he's basically a trad in a lot of his views, but as I said, at one point being a trad would have meant you were against free speech (at least for the masses). So I have to look into what kind of trad he is.
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the kind of trad who's into free speech is the kind of trad who's losing
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I agree he's not the type of trad who's winning, and they're not into free speech, yes.
End of conversation
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Lots of things have existed throughout human history, and they have been norms for 'good' reasons from a society viewpoint (one issue here is what I mean when I say 'society', I'll get onto that in a bit) but I don't consider them good myself.
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they may be *better* than what went before, because what went before was often godawful, but I don't consider them maximally good.
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And when I'm speaking of 'society' I'm speaking of it as an... as a goal oriented entitity in its own right above and beyond it's members. The same as a body of cells.
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