A lot of conservatives think ethical non-monogamy is all about maximizing pleasure. I think it's much more about living honestly and sustainably. Iti's about not trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. Because that often fails, and when it does, the results are traumatic.
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I think I don't see the distinction very clearly; suffering very clearly gets in the way of pleasure and increasing pleasure without minimizing suffering runs into diminishing returns pretty dang fast! Also, puking is unpleasant so it seems maximally hedonic to stop before that.
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yeah, that's all basically the Epicurean position i guess probably it won for good reasons
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