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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
Chaos
@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

heartened by everybody's eagerness to participate in cryptographic wizard crimes

Joined July 2012

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    1. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21

      I think aesthetics is really undervalued in its importance in both ethics and rationality. We like to imagine that our sense of beautiful is distinct from what we judge as good and/or true, but I think that is a self-delusion.

      3 replies 1 retweet 24 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Feb 21
      Replying to @danlistensto

      i've been saying it all reduces to aesthetic judgments since fuckin' forever and people just stare at me and want to know how i can base an ethical system on paintings

      4 replies 0 retweets 13 likes
    3. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
      Replying to @chaosprime @danlistensto

      This only works if we agree that both aesthetics and ethics are largely in the domain of local culture, yeah?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Feb 21
      Replying to @pieratt @danlistensto

      idk, why would that be necessary

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
      Replying to @chaosprime @danlistensto

      because both polka and dowrys are pleasing to large swaths of the planet.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime Feb 21
      Replying to @pieratt @danlistensto

      this is where i invoke Chesterton’s Fence i think

      12:41 PM - 21 Feb 2018
      • 1 Like
      • Dan Garfield
      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @chaosprime @pieratt

          was leaning that way myself, though it does feel like a cop out in this case. I'd like to have a better answer, though I find much less fault with polka than with dowry.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @pieratt

          i mean, Polka Your Eyes Out is great

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
          Replying to @chaosprime @danlistensto

          is this to say, at their root or within their full historical context, polka/dowry are beautiful for the same reasons that ~classical indian music~ is beautiful?

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @pieratt @chaosprime

          ok, the dowry example is a good one because it's something we (21C internet nerds) find really ethically objectionable. that ethical objection taints it aesthetically as well. we find it "ugly" on a metaphysical level and want to find it ugly on an aesthetic level too.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @pieratt @chaosprime

          our values are dramatically different than the values of the cultures where dowry is accepted. this is me getting as PoMo as I'm willing to: from their own subjective POV the dowry was ethically beautiful because it solidified kin bonding in a tribal society.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @pieratt @chaosprime

          the aesthetics that could be developed around reinforced kin-bonding include both works of art, public rituals/ceremonies, and institutional structures that would be subject to aesthetic judgments.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @pieratt @chaosprime

          I can't judge these things beautiful by my own cultural standards. It's not my culture and I don't want my culture to adopt dowry. I can, I think, learn to understand the beauty those foreign cultures would have found in their own dowry aesthetics.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @chaosprime

          ok, so what we're saying is something like, (and I dont have the right language for this, but): Ethics and Aesthetics are universally bound, but locally variable. And perhaps, you have to understand both to understand either.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Feb 21
          Replying to @pieratt @chaosprime

          language is hard, that's close enough

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
          Replying to @danlistensto @chaosprime

          very interesting. I wonder what it means then that artists + spiritual leaders rarely overlap. Or is that not true...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 4 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
          Replying to @chaosprime @danlistensto

          doesnt this negate the advantage of aesthetic ethics tho, in the sense that, I can understand both at a visceral level. As opposed to needing a full grok before being able to weigh in

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. pieratt‏ @pieratt Feb 21
          Replying to @pieratt @chaosprime @danlistensto

          eh, ignore this. Let me rethink

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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