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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
Chaos
@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

heartened by everybody's eagerness to participate in cryptographic wizard crimes

Joined July 2012

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    1. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      wow... so yeah, that is definitely a reduction to absurdity of free will... and not only did everybody in the Reception section of the Wikipedia article miss the point, so did Conway

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      It's a reduction to /quantum mechanics/ of free (will|whim). Absurdity is your adjective.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      well... no? people are consistently talking about it as if it demonstrates the existence of free will. it doesn't; if you take free will *as a postulate* it demonstrates consequences of that. Conway then demonstrates free will by handwaving.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      t h e a x i om o f c h o i c e i s a x i o m a t i c

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      i'm trying to think of something that has less factual illustrative power than choice of axioms and it's damned hard unless all you want illustrated is what axioms somebody likes

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      This started with "The only way free will can work is if the Many worlds theorem of quantum mechanics is true", which is refuted by the Strong Free Will Theorem.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      oh, i have no investment in that position and don't think it's the case, but Conway here doesn't refute it either, in the whole thing free will is just a black box hypothetical causal phenomenon whose provenance isn't raised as a question

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      Conway explicitly provides a model of free will which doesn't rely on Many Worlds.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      he provides a model of necessary derivation of free will of collections of particles from free will of particles, he doesn't provide a model of free will at all; his fully baseless axiom of free will could rely on many-worlds or not, the question isn't asked

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @djinnius @Alrenous

      As the person who brought up many worlds in the first place. It's not necessary for a "Non deterministic universe" but is necessary for the chaos of quantum mechanics to contain something humans would recognize as choice.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp @djinnius @Alrenous

      enh, there are other options, like in a simulation scenario where your body is hardware, your mind is software, and your free will is user input but really choice is just a post hoc quale of the part of your mind that exists to come up with a plausible story for the cops

      11:47 AM - 8 Jan 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • Jane MurderWeiss inhumane kantian Call Of Spooky: Ghosts
      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @djinnius @Alrenous

          The pseudo-Gnostic cosmology I'm groping towards is that our minds which exist in a higher dimension have chosen to observe an arbitrary bundle of particles as they travel through entropic 4d space-time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
          Replying to @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime and

          Also the Ego that we think of as ourselves is probably not really our soul, but rather the result of us getting too attached to the bundle of particles with no true objective nature.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
          Replying to @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime @Alrenous

          I have zero beef with either of those frames

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous Jan 8
          Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime

          So anyway, free will is provably false, but everything you wanted free will for you have anyway. http://alrenous.blogspot.com/2016/07/free-will-is-analytically-impossible.html … If you run through the possibility tree, it turns out it's an easy empirical question.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        6. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous Jan 8
          Replying to @Alrenous @djinnius and

          In short, if you cause your decisions, you don't have free will because you don't cause yourself. If you don't cause your decisions, you don't have free will because duh. And that's it for ways reality could be.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @djinnius

          More simply, pansychism is true. What we perceive physically as random events are tiny minds making decisions based on tiny amounts of information in the form of sensation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. GoodOpinionHaver‏ @LemurianWarlock Jan 8
          Replying to @Alrenous @chaosprime and

          If panpsychism is true, are we all a part of the same mind?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @LemurianWarlock @Alrenous and

          yes, and also part of a finite but very large number of same and different minds at a finite but very large number of scales

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @LemurianWarlock and

          my best guess isn't actually that panpsychism is true but i'm not prepared to dismiss it with prejudice

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. GoodOpinionHaver‏ @LemurianWarlock Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @Alrenous and

          What do you personally think is most likely to be true?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @LemurianWarlock @Alrenous and

          oh, fuck, honestly in my heart of hearts i'm a simulationist, for the exact same reason that if you ask a shoemaker about God he'll tell you about how God is a shoemaker. that's, like, a plurality of my opinion by a thin margin though

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. GoodOpinionHaver‏ @LemurianWarlock Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @Alrenous and

          If we're simulations, what happens when we die?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @LemurianWarlock @Alrenous and

          fucked if i know. likely nothing interesting. in the interesting territory, there are a lot of options, most of them identical with the non-simulation scenarios. the distinct interesting options are things like "GAME OVER. PLAY AGAIN?"

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Garfield‏ @danlistensto Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp and

          who's the user?

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
          Replying to @danlistensto @chaosprime and

          Read up on Gnosticism I guess. My only beef with it is it was invented by people who didn't have video games, and who thus assumed the simulation was Malicious.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
          Replying to @PomoPsiOp @danlistensto and

          The Demiurge is just a hard working server admin for a cosmic MMO, and the One is a fucking powergamer trying to crash the simulation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @PomoPsiOp @danlistensto and

          i deeply appreciate this sympathy for the devil

          0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        6. End of conversation

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