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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
Chaos
@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

heartened by everybody's eagerness to participate in cryptographic wizard crimes

Joined July 2012

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    1. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 2

      The only way free will can work is if the Many worlds therom of quantum mechanics is true, and each conscious derision results in a new universe. And quantum mechanics means that most of these decisions are being made by particles, with life forms being pretentious bundles.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 2
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp

      free will is fucking silly, either the universe is deterministic, which is nightmarish, or things happen for no reason, which is even more nightmarish

      4 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
    3. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 2
      Replying to @chaosprime

      Ehh, it's only deterministic if there is a single timeline, and it's only nightmarish if you are bothered by the existence of possibilities balanced out by their counter possibilities.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 2
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime

      The nightmare comes from moralizing. Anything being possible should be a good thing, but people are too bothered by the idea that maybe half of that anything is going to be things you hate.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 2
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime

      Somewhere out there in configuration space there is a version of you who is the immortal god king of the universe and everyone loves you. In another version of the universe you are a meat slave in a factory farm. We get to decide which one to identify more with.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 2
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp @chaosprime

      I will (freely) suggest to both of you to read up on Conway's Strong Free Will Theorem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp

      well, the Wikipedia article is confusing. the intro summarizes what sounds like a reduction to absurdity of the concept of free will, demonstrating that if it exists, then there must be elementary particles that have it

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Call Of Spooky: Ghosts‏ @PomoPsiOp Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @djinnius

      Well, if we stop chauvinistically assuming that the "Observer" of quantum mechanics must be a human, then the logical conclusion is that a particle is "observed" whenever it interacts with another particle, and that free will is an inherent property to all matter.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @PomoPsiOp @djinnius

      the privileged observer is just pop mysticism and the academic sources it emanated from should be fucking ashamed of themselves

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
      Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp

      I used to encourage reading the paper but @Alrenous linked me to a blog that makes it clearer https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~jas/one/freewill-theorem.html …

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
      Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

      wow... so yeah, that is definitely a reduction to absurdity of free will... and not only did everybody in the Reception section of the Wikipedia article miss the point, so did Conway

      11:13 AM - 8 Jan 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          It's a reduction to /quantum mechanics/ of free (will|whim). Absurdity is your adjective.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          well... no? people are consistently talking about it as if it demonstrates the existence of free will. it doesn't; if you take free will *as a postulate* it demonstrates consequences of that. Conway then demonstrates free will by handwaving.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          t h e a x i om o f c h o i c e i s a x i o m a t i c

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          i'm trying to think of something that has less factual illustrative power than choice of axioms and it's damned hard unless all you want illustrated is what axioms somebody likes

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          This started with "The only way free will can work is if the Many worlds theorem of quantum mechanics is true", which is refuted by the Strong Free Will Theorem.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          oh, i have no investment in that position and don't think it's the case, but Conway here doesn't refute it either, in the whole thing free will is just a black box hypothetical causal phenomenon whose provenance isn't raised as a question

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. sam atman‏ @djinnius Jan 8
          Replying to @chaosprime @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          Conway explicitly provides a model of free will which doesn't rely on Many Worlds.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Jan 8
          Replying to @djinnius @PomoPsiOp @Alrenous

          he provides a model of necessary derivation of free will of collections of particles from free will of particles, he doesn't provide a model of free will at all; his fully baseless axiom of free will could rely on many-worlds or not, the question isn't asked

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 2 more replies

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