So would you say nebulosity is bottom-up, too...?
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Replying to @qu137157 @Meaningness
not inherently, pretty sure you can have nebulosity from the top down, just usually top-down imperatives are at least *trying* not to be nebulous since the illusion of definitiveness was the point of them
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Replying to @chaosprime @Meaningness
I wonder if (eternal)ism isn't so much top-down as it is something you get if you go up far enough
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Replying to @MNV763 @Meaningness
the kind of top-down i mean is, existing as symbol systems in social space that jam themselves into you via language and the neocortex, attacking your cognitive stack from there to take your native experience of meaning hostage so you'll do what the symbol systems want
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Replying to @chaosprime @Meaningness
That *seems* like a kind of eternalism itself if I understand you correctly... (about the intentional existence of symbol systems)
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Replying to @qu137157 @Meaningness
yes, we are awash in top-down eternalisms
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Replying to @chaosprime @Meaningness
Hmm. Maybe a different tack: afaict the relationship of (eternal)ism to meaning is only obstructive to the extent that it's expected to provide meaning (including by accounting for its absence). I don't think that expectation itself comes from the content of the top-down process
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Replying to @qu137157 @Meaningness
"hi i'm installing myself as a gatekeeper to your experience of meaning" would not be very smart content to include explicitly my analysis of these systems is that putting themselves between you and your natural capacities is their bread and butter
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Replying to @chaosprime @Meaningness
What you call the systems seem like the shadow not the gatekeeper
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That is, unless what you mean by "top-down" is specifically the reification of meaning, rather than any reflective or descriptive processes around thinking about stuff with other people, broadly speaking, I don't think those processes are what's doing the gatekeeping at all.
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Chaos Retweeted Chaos
was this clarifying?https://twitter.com/chaosprime/status/1254473442100985866 …
Chaos added,
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Replying to @chaosprime @Meaningness
A slightly different topic than the one I thought we were discussing, but parallel! In that I'm not sure teaching/learning those rituals is what obstructs spontaneous living meaning! The deprivation has to come first, for a ritual to make sense w/o meaning, or to seem to own it..
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Replying to @Qu137157 @Meaningness
i don't agree any more than your endorphin response has to stop working for exogenous opioids to work, or for them to seem to own the effects they create
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