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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
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@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

problemagic

Joined July 2012

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    1. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      so the relationship between experience and consciousness is kind of weird. most obvious example: I get drunk, black out and do something stupid. I wake up with no recollection, no conscious memory of it. did I Really experience it in the given sense? how conscious was I?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      Chaos Retweeted ds9 se01ep10 move along home defender

      yes and 100% imo this woman would appear to disagree rather strongly with Freudhttps://twitter.com/allamaraine4/status/1186349531274891270 …

      Chaos added,

      ds9 se01ep10 move along home defender @allamaraine4
      @chaosprime have you seen this? https://www.wired.com/2016/04/susie-mckinnon-autobiographical-memory-sdam/ … - seems relevant to a few things you've posted about - tl;dr is that memory as most think of it doesn't seem to be necessary for "being a living, breathing, functioning conscious human" (as most think of it)
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      Freud's usage of memory specifically does not imply conscious access, simply a persistence of structural changes and byproducts of experience (otherwise repression etc would be pure rather than only partly nonsense)

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      okay, so conditioning is a form of memory to Freud without any need for episodic or semantic recall. fair my answer to your blackout question is obviously correct in Freud, then, since your lack of episodic memory is irrelevant

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      so I guess my response here is that Jaynes quasi-psychoanalytic definition of consciousness as "being a linguistic subject" seems to be the only definition that still feels like it fits the boundaries we've just established, but it's unfortunately banal

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @chaosprime and

      the irony here is that if consciousness is downstream of language then qualia (as commonly defined) is inherently inaccessible to consciousness

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      it isn't, though, Jaynes isn't just banal he's wrong

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      pls provide me a better definition of consciousness then so I can "update my priors"

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      i mean, having a subjective point of view that's experiencing things is the best way i know to point at it if i'm tabooing "qualia"

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      "subjective" -> Cartesian subject -> downstream of language, consciousness as media etc "experiencing things" ("experience" as transitive verb) -> experience implies thingness -> aforementioned epistemological problems with qualia ^ not a full counterargument, just thoughts

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      Descartes was just being a nerd, subjectivity isn't downstream of language, lots of people have memories of preverbal experiences, i do if he weren't so big a nerd it'd be "i experience therefor i am" i mean experiencing things in the idiomatic sense not the one from that page

      9:29 PM - 21 Oct 2019
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      • matt the Bell Pepper neurotypical silver medal snav Norn
      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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          Replying to @chaosprime @qorprate and

          i.e. the "things" i am experiencing are sense impressions, i am not "experiencing" a Coke can, i'm experiencing a visual pattern and tactile pressure/temperature/texture information and cognitive reprocessing artifacts off of those

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        2. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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          Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

          id argue subjectivity requires more than just memory, it requires a notion of selfhood, a subject and the colloquial usage of experience seems like either attention-to-perception (implying pattern/thing recognition) or else narrative self-insertion which implies a subject

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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          Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

          i don't think it does, i think experience comes first and we learn actually much, much later to assign those experiences to a persona-identity-history those things may be implied by the usage, yeah, which is a reason why the usage is a halfassed tool to use to point to the thing

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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