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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
Chaos
@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

problemagic

Joined July 2012

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    1. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      people writing about consciousness be like, "first i will redefine the term 'consciousness' as something i can make empirical statements about, then see how just how long i can talk before people notice i'm not talking about what they came here to find out about"

      25 replies 44 retweets 323 likes
      Show this thread
    2. the Bell Pepper‏ @oimoiles Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      Even more cringe-worthy is when people redefine it to involve qualia and then erroneously insist "this is what we all think of when we say consciousness".

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @oimoiles

      pic.twitter.com/5tdEkDOu6V

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @oimoiles

      okay then people who use "consciousness" to mean "cognition" or "self-modifying cognition" or "video cameras pointed at mirrors" or what-have-you what is their term for having a subjective point of view that experiences qualia

      3 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
    5. June “Wakalix”, reluctant Heart player‏ @TWakalix Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @oimoiles

      that concept is Invalid and Incoherent and does not deserve additional wordspace

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @TWakalix @chaosprime @oimoiles

      I agree with chaos' main complaint but I also don't like the idea of qualia

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      hunh what's wrong with it

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

      this wiki captures my complaints & more, but my main comment was that qualia overemphasizes "thingness" (cf. Helmholtz's thought experiment on the page) when in fact thingness (& attention!) arises from a feedback loop of motivated sensing & acting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia#Epistemological_issues …

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @chaosprime and

      i was going to comment earlier on how Freud understood that consciousness is dependent on memory but everyone since has forgotten, and then emphasize how qualia as an idea is directly contingent on attention which is guided by memory/experience, but i deleted before posting

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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      Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

      the whole "thingness" deal is obviously nonsense, people recoil from "raw feels" because they're cowards all i'm trying to say is that experiences are happening, if people have poisoned "qualia" with too much nonsense okay but idk what to say to ping the right associations then

      9:05 PM - 21 Oct 2019
      • 1 Like
      • neurotypical silver medal snav
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. the Bell Pepper‏ @oimoiles Oct 21
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          Replying to @chaosprime @qorprate @TWakalix

          I think your use of sense impressions is fine enough, sense data is another popular term. I totally get now that you didnt mean qualia in the way most philosopher do.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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          Replying to @oimoiles @qorprate @TWakalix

          good lord what are most philosophers trying to use it for that whole "my sense data about the Coke can has a magical relationship to the actual Coke can and that magical relationship is real and strong and my friend" routine?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. neurotypical silver medal snav‏ @qorprate Oct 21
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          Replying to @chaosprime @TWakalix @oimoiles

          so the relationship between experience and consciousness is kind of weird. most obvious example: I get drunk, black out and do something stupid. I wake up with no recollection, no conscious memory of it. did I Really experience it in the given sense? how conscious was I?

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime Oct 21
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          Replying to @qorprate @TWakalix @oimoiles

          Chaos Retweeted ds9 se01ep10 move along home defender

          yes and 100% imo this woman would appear to disagree rather strongly with Freudhttps://twitter.com/allamaraine4/status/1186349531274891270 …

          Chaos added,

          ds9 se01ep10 move along home defender @allamaraine4
          @chaosprime have you seen this? https://www.wired.com/2016/04/susie-mckinnon-autobiographical-memory-sdam/ … - seems relevant to a few things you've posted about - tl;dr is that memory as most think of it doesn't seem to be necessary for "being a living, breathing, functioning conscious human" (as most think of it)
          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. 10 more replies

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