my behavior is always negotiable, but when you open a negotiation by moralizing about it, you've already told me that you expect to get whatever you want for free, so there's very little reason to *not* treat you like a loudmouth asshole
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Replying to @chaosprime @lunavis
If someone takes "you're doing thing X, it hurts people in this way, can you maybe consider not doing that" as an attack in every case (as in, without specific evidence of disingenuity or flaws in the statement's logic) then I feel safe assuming they're trash.
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It's hard not to see such people as caring more about scoring points in their interactions than not harming people, and I don't really want to spend too much time interacting with people who are constantly imposing an adversarial frame.
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I'm hopefully being precise enough here to allow for the possibility that you are not such a person, and that this is not what you meant.
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Replying to @hikikomorphism @lunavis
it is not, illustrating consequences isn't at all what i mean by moralizing (possibly invalidly), what annoys me is more leaning on social convention and its implied threats without any acknowledgement that somebody may be using different values, not doing your values poorly
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Replying to @chaosprime @hikikomorphism
this is a really good point: there's an undertone of "you should adopt my values" in cases i see and to that i just say fuck that
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Replying to @lunavis @chaosprime
My problem is that I've definitely seen people react exactly this way to requests not to misgender people or to stop using racial slurs, including using exactly this argument to defend it.
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That's... still asking someone to adopt your values. Which is fine, not misgendering people and not using racial slurs are excellent values, I want everyone to have them. But expect those people to respond badly (and rationally, given their values) to arguments of this form.
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People can respond however they want, but if your values are that you should be able to say racial slurs whenever you want you can go stand outside until you reconsider (more concretely, I see no problem expelling such people from communities where such behavior isn't welcome)
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I don't disagree. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of actually changing minds, which while valuable is of course insanely difficult.
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nobody is actually following anything but the Theodore Roosevelt doctrine on that
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