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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
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@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

problemagic

Joined July 2012

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    1. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @chaosprime

      Eh. Neither would cause a speedy deletion of a new article on Sam Harris. I agree deleted articles that result in news can be that way, but they get news because the Wiki mindset that uses rules to short-circuit critical thinking is bad and insular in a way alien to most people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic

      the uncited article might not, that's always a pure crapshoot, but the copypasta article on Sam Harris would be deleted to a high degree of certainty, copyvio is policed with an iron fist and automated tools yes, it's a highly developed system of metis and so very vulnerable

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      Even copyvio is not a hard rule for article deletion. Might be interesting to look for patterns in what articles are allowed to exist with copyvio. No, I'm not saying these 600 articles compares to the torrent of all incoming copypasta. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category%3AAll_copied_and_pasted_articles_and_sections …

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    4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic

      that's not a list of things "allowed to exist", it's a work queue of things that need to be inspected to determine whether they should exist

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      Same thing, especially in an environment where people fashion the rules as deterministic and objective.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic

      interpreting the fact that a bureaucratic process that exists for the sake of diligence in not letting automated tools make ham-fisted false-positive-prone judgments hasn't yet gotten to a flagged article as an endorsement of that article's existence isn't even *good* propaganda

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      All I'm saying is that someone deleted one of few women to have won a physics Nobel Prize, an obviously notable figure per WP's other guidelines, and the article was given less time to work through its issues than any of the things on that list which has some entries from 2014.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic @chaosprime

      One way someone can warrant a Wikipedia article is simply by winning a famous award. She did. The admin could have recognized her notability, marked the copyvio/ref issues, & told the new editor to fix it. If the admin's not up for that, why are they patrolling new articles?

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    9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic

      there may be outlier cases i'm not aware of, but i've never personally known "tag and fix" to be used for copyvio that has been determined to be copyvio after inspection; you delete the offending material and notability doesn't enter into it

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      This is where I think we differ: I say that is a bad approach. Notability should come first, and the new editor should be given the chance to fix an issue with the article they want to contribute. The article's potential should be prioritized over its ignorant first edit.

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      Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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      Replying to @lethargilistic

      sure, and that's largely how it goes down. copyvio 1) potentially threatens the integrity of the whole project and 2) reflects zero damn effort from the contributor, though, so it's not handled the same way as an honest noob attempt

      9:09 PM - 4 Nov 2018
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        1. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @chaosprime @lethargilistic

          and the second article was a draft, so literally a thing that exists to solicit feedback on whether it's good enough to go in or not, which it wasn't, and it was declined with feedback indicating what it needed, which is exactly what should happen by both of our lights

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        2. Shibbo Leth‏ @lethargilistic 4 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @chaosprime

          1) No it doesn't, as the worst thing that could happen is a takedown request that would be complied with anyway. 2) That is unnecessary hostility that leads to unnecessary haste. It should be treated like any other rule violation by a new editor.

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        3. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 4 Nov 2018
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          Replying to @lethargilistic

          1) legal opinions vary 2) it's called a criterion for *speedy* deletion for a reason. anyway, these are things you can argue should be the way it's done, but they're *not* the way it's done, and it's not reasonable to expect the admin to suddenly have started doing it this way

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