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chaosprime's profile
Chaos
Chaos
Chaos
@chaosprime

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Chaos

@chaosprime

problemagic

Joined July 2012

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    1. mcc‏ @mcclure111 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime

      the reason i dont accept "virtue signaling" as a real thing is that theres no particular way to distinguish a false signal of virtue from simply being virtuous. when i see people attack "virtue signaling" it is roughly universally meaning "your values are different from mine"

      1 reply 2 retweets 16 likes
    2. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @mcclure111

      sure there is. if one claims adherence to, for example, the Christian virtue that one should sell all one's belongings and give them to the poor, the person espousing this from their Upper West Side apartment and the person who actually did it have way different tax returns

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. helios‏ @helios_daedalus 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime @mcclure111

      Individual verification would be great, but #onhere, these kinds of things are almost impossible to prove. And attempting to chase down every single claimant would be similar to trying to disprove every crank assertion by creationists and flat-earthers. This simply doesn't scale.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

      which would mean that #onhere all virtue signaling is cheap virtue signaling 🤔 that isn't entirely true because you do see people fighting over the amount of time and energy they spend volunteering or protesting or what-have-you, which is virtue signal authentication, but close

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. helios‏ @helios_daedalus 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime @mcclure111

      Not all acts of virtue are material. Supporting the right of LGBT people to exist, is idealistic in nature, by acknowledging their issues/amplifying concerns. Also the idea that there is a price barrier to participate in virtue is pretty opposite to what virtue is supposed to be

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

      since there aren't any non-material things the attempt to be assigned merit for non-material things is obviously a scam and should be treated as such i'd argue that the idea that you can have virtues that don't cost you anything is opposite to what virtue is supposed to be

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. helios‏ @helios_daedalus 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime @mcclure111

      If you must reduce everything to crude materialism, then everything costs you time and energy, which is an opportunity cost. This means that any act that you take onhere is by default of material value. Also, the issue of virtue being a function of sacrifice is highly debatable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. helios‏ @helios_daedalus 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @helios_daedalus @chaosprime @mcclure111

      Virtuous action should be made more effortless, rather than less. Otherwise you end up rewarding performative effort and gate-keeping virtuousness from those who cannot afford your arbitrary price on what constitutes effort.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Chaos‏ @chaosprime 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

      or we could just stop providing people with economic rents based on their supposed noble natures and just let virtue be its own reward

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Mazel Tuov‏ @Jewthulhu 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @chaosprime @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

      Naw. Incentivizing not being trash is absolutely a worthwhile way to build a societal structure, because having no additional cost to be a complete piece of shit means more people will consider it a valid way to be. They should not get to do so for free.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Chaos‏ @chaosprime 15 Jul 2018
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      Replying to @Jewthulhu @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

      cool. good luck with the whole project of building an incentive structure for not being trash that doesn't reward a sociopath cynically gaming the incentives better than it ever rewards actually not being trash

      1:52 PM - 15 Jul 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Mazel Tuov‏ @Jewthulhu 15 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @chaosprime @helios_daedalus @mcclure111

          I don't imagine it's a thing I can pull of on my own, or easily, or without exploits. It's generally easier to penalize being shit, but the conceptual difference between "rewarding being good" and "materially punishing being shit" isn't that vast a gulf.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Mazel Tuov‏ @Jewthulhu 15 Jul 2018
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          Replying to @Jewthulhu @chaosprime and

          By which I mean, materially disincentivising being awful is a form of materially incentivizing virtue, and nondiscrimination laws, for example, don't generally cause collateral damage.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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