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caitlinrgreen's profile
Dr Caitlin Green
Dr Caitlin Green
Dr Caitlin Green
@caitlinrgreen

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Dr Caitlin Green

@caitlinrgreen

History, archaeology, place-names & early lit. Main research on post-Roman Britain & Anglo-Saxon England; also long-distance trade, migration & contact.

Cornwall/Lincolnshire
caitlingreen.org
Joined August 2014

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    1. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15

      Hey #medievaltwitter does anyone have references to scholarship on the question of why medieval Europeans did not import tea? They had access to Chinese products, so why not tea? My search for "tea" on the IMB turned up bupkis.

      47 replies 61 retweets 173 likes
      Dr Caitlin Green‏ @caitlinrgreen Aug 15
      Replying to @sdavissecord

      What an interesting question! In addition to things already mentioned, I'd guess tea=heavier than eg pepper per "portion" (40–60 times, by my very rough est.), would that be a factor in reducing supply/demand? Also recall reading spread of tea drinking in east linked to Buddhism?

      11:30 AM - 15 Aug 2018
      • 27 Likes
      • TracyK 🌟👑🕊️ Götz von Berlichingen #FBPE Auntifa medievalpoc Lucas Brandon C Koefoed-Nielsen Ben Donahue Dr. S Davis-Secord Tim Knight
      5 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen

          Thanks! Pepper was far from the only "spice" imported in bulk from China--all kinds of things like alum and dyestuffs and many, many other eastern products that could also have been heavier or lighter depending. And ceramics were way heavier, but they were imported into Muslim

          3 replies 0 retweets 17 likes
        3. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15
          Replying to @sdavissecord @caitlinrgreen

          world by sea, regardless of weight. But I don't think tea was commonly enjoyed the Muslim world either at this time, right?

          3 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
        4. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15
          Replying to @sdavissecord @caitlinrgreen

          The link to eastern religious and cultural practices might be a clue--like, maybe even Persian and Arab traders who visited or even lived in China didn't have cultural access there to tea or any reason to try it? They imported tea bowls (ok, not many, but the Belitung wreck

          1 reply 0 retweets 14 likes
        5. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15
          Replying to @sdavissecord @caitlinrgreen

          had some ceramics that were ID'd as tea bowls) but not tea?

          2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        6. Dr Caitlin Green‏ @caitlinrgreen Aug 15
          Replying to @sdavissecord

          This might work! Bowls, ofc, might be originally tea bowls but in importing culture simply be treated as luxury ceramic and used otherwise? Hmm....!

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Dr Caitlin Green‏ @caitlinrgreen Aug 15
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          Fwiw, two 15thC references to envoys from Arabia soliciting tea leaves :) https://archive.org/stream/medievalresearc00bretgoog#page/n318 …pic.twitter.com/ypBwRlkFD5

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Dr Caitlin Green‏ @caitlinrgreen Aug 15
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          And an Arabic reference to tea in China from c.900, showing an early awareness: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=02kFBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q&f=false …pic.twitter.com/e9Foa0d7C2

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. David Wilson‏ @davidgmwilson Aug 15
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          Tea's not much use unless it's cheap and later in Europe added to sugar. Alcohol (beer) much more effective. See Alan Macfarlane's book

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 15
          Replying to @davidgmwilson @caitlinrgreen

          I'm no expert on Asian tea ceremonies, and not actually a tea-drinker myself, but didn't the Chinese and Japanese drink tea with salt rather than sugar? For them, it was highly prized as a cultural ritual, and aid to meditation. Anyway, you mean Green Gold? Thanks for the rec!

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4.  🌴 bug bug  ☕️‏ @tekhelet Aug 30
          Replying to @sdavissecord @davidgmwilson @caitlinrgreen

          Chinese and Japanese don’t drink tea with salt. I only know of Himalayan folk who may drink tea with butter.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Dr. S Davis-Secord‏ @sdavissecord Aug 30
          Replying to @tekhelet @davidgmwilson @caitlinrgreen

          Not today, but the past is not the same - there are recipes from 8th c. China that include many types of herbs and spices. Tea has a history just like other cultural elements.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. Stannie Holt‏ @stannieholt Aug 17
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          Tea didn't regain popularity in China till the Ming Dynasty (says Standage). And although tea began reaching Europe ~1600, coffee was already competing for the "stimulating non-alcoholic beverage" market niche. It was apparently cheaper than tea & common in nearby Muslim lands.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Stannie Holt‏ @stannieholt Aug 17
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          This is secondary scholarship, but "A History of the World in 6 Glasses" by Tom Standage says that when Marco Polo visited China, during the Mongol ascendancy, tea had lost favor to koumiss (fermented mare's milk). MP apparently didn't develop a taste for tea or bring it home.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. sm9eb‏ @sm9eb Aug 15
          Replying to @caitlinrgreen @sdavissecord

          I was just wondering this same thing while reading a hist of tea exports. Makeup, paint, perfume all went so...

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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