Scenario 1: man is caught in a terrible fire, is permanently scarred so as to be totally unrecognisable but is unaffected psychologically. Ask his wife "is this the same man as before the fire?" and she would say "of course he is. He's the same man - he just looks different.
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How do you know how the wife will react to either scenario? Maybe look not where the man's identity falls in each scenario but how others react. I suspect that will tell you far more about personality, expectations, tolerance from a range of people.
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Well, now you come to mention it, I know a gay couple who suffered the head trauma scenario and it’s exactly how the partner reacted.
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As Fodo has said, that tells you only about that couple. I know more than one couple where one partner has suffered brain injury, and, amazingly, and with heartbreaking loyalty & love & dignity, their partner has stood by them.
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They’re still together
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OK, well assuming that they're treating each other well, the point of your anecdote seems to be pretty much a semantic one, then.
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A man wakes up one morning, insists he cannot remember who he is. He is subjected to various psychological tests by experts and they cannot prove he is lying. His personality is now different. He asks to be released from prison, hes not the man who killed his wife and family.
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And...?
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Would you release him purely on the basis of his own claim that he is a different person?
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how can a female identity be *defined*? How does it "feel to be a woman"? Is there a possible answer that does not consist of sexist stereotypes women are fighting for vital reasons? How can it be acceptable to enshrine these stereotypes now as an identity?
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I don't necessarily agree with all your points Sonder, but they're worth exploring/debating - this is exactly the sort of debate that we need on trans/women's rights. And it's exactly what we cannot have whilst anyone who questions trans ideology is branded a transphobe "terf".
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exactly. I'm just afraid Brian isn't *really* interested in these counterarguments, what I can see in his tweets, he's quite on the side of trans activists and hopes he can "calm" feminists. No offence.
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I’m very interested in the counter arguments
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Counter argument 1/ The info in this thread comes from a US gay website. It asks whether trans ideology is encouraging violence & hostility to women, feminists and lesbians & why the liberal/left politicians & media are silent and even supportive of this.https://twitter.com/hogotheforsaken/status/991610534666625024 …
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Counter argument 2/ This thread by brave trans woman
@KJ_Harrisonhttps://twitter.com/kj_harrison/status/990696691442634753 …
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People who identify as trans face discrimination & prejudge because they are perceived as breaking gender rules not because of their identity. Laws based on gender non conformity would protect them & many others & would not interfere with the sex based rights of female people.
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Right now what is being pushed is 'we have to affirm the sex/gender a person believes themselves to be to protect them' which is an ideological claim many people disagree with and, because female people are oppressed based on their sex, potentially impacts on our rights. >
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Why not 'a person can believe what they like about themselves but it is irrelevant to law, we'll protect all people who break gender rules to present & live as they like & be safe & free from prejudice/discrimination'? Benefits everyone & supports not clashes with female rights.
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I think that ‘true’ identity is a misnomer and perhaps does not exist. And when it comes to oppression and society a person’s own identity is unimportant. It is how they are treated by others that matters. And others don’t act based on what’s in your head. They can’t see that.
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Yes, Artemis, spot on. Oppression doesnt work on "true identity" - it groups humans together according to traits of its own choosing - often physical eg skin colour, disability, biological sex.
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Thinking this is even a question for everyone shows what a privileged viewpoint you're taking here, Brian. It'd be lovely if we all lived in some kind of amorphous bundle of lovin' joy where anyone can 'identify' however... Reality is that.... 1/2
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Most of us are defined *daily* on the basis of our biological sex, race, physical abilities, etc. We can't 'identify' out of that. Existing equality legislation and protections are therefore essential to those of us who aren't born into a group so privileged that.... 2/3
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... it enjoys the luxury of believing it is, and can be whatever it says it is, or can treat 'identity' like a journey where you can go on a little tourist jaunt into being 'the other' when you feel like it - and scurry home to the privilege you've always enjoyed,,, 3/4
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... or just carry on exerting that privilege while also trying to vaunt your 'chosen' identity, whilst never experiencing the actuality, and the disadvantages of that identity.
#justsaying
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