July 2016. Norway introduces a new law which means anyone can change their "legal sex" on paper, simply by filling in a form. (1)
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You didn't actually read it did you? They initially told the woman that anyone with male genitalia must use the men's, then when the man complained they changed the rules. Now the women are excluded while men with self ID are included.
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The original text was translated/read to me by a Norwegian.
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Brian, I shared the English translation with you. You didn't need to wait for your husband to translate it. In any case it's there for everyone to check for themselves.
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Classic mansplain. Remember to always ask a man first before listening to women's lived experience.
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Actual Norwegian woman upthread being ignored by him or maybe that 'maybe reality is different' is telling her she is imagining it all?
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The women who was accused of harassment in the women’s locker room after asking a male bodied person if he was in the wrong locker room went through a hard time. She had to engage a lawyer to defend her case. Reality in norway due to self ID.
End of conversation
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And if the rules of the gym didn't say that? Then suddenly the same woman, with the same reasons for discomfort, is suddenly committing a hate-crime. Which is incoherent, and places women's needs at the vagaries of whoever makes a gym policy.
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We cannot have a situation in which women's once widely accepted needs for privacy and dignity - and that's before we even get to substantive reasons for fear of male-bodied ppl - are overridden in this way. It's so utterly disrespectful.
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It's more than disrespectful, it's sinister. Who stands to gain from men with penises to be able to access women's spaces easily? Not transexuals who have had the op. Not women.
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The GRA was controversial at the time and the issues of the wider impact on society were known then. That's why the medical gate keeping is there. The issues then are still valid today.
End of conversation
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In Oslo we have one gay sauna: Hercules. Gay saunas are important for some gay men, and lesbians have always protected gay men’s need for men only places. So honestly I expect gay men to support women’s need for safe spaces. Don’t you?
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I know this case. There is no doubt that women have to accept persons with male genitalia in women’s locker room. LGBTQI organisations support that persons with male genitalia should have access to women’s locker room. They say women should be more understanding and open minded.
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Brian always seems to know what's best for us women. There is a word for that, it's definitely not liberal.
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Are you asking Tonje what the reality is like, or are you, as a male Brit, saying you know more about the experiences of women in Norwegian changing rooms than a female Norwegian gym user? I hope it's the former and you might change your mind re self ID, I fear it's the latter
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Brian, if you’re for self ID then you’re for intact males using spaces where women are undressed, washing and sleeping. If you think that’s problematic then you can’t support self ID.
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