July 2016. Norway introduces a new law which means anyone can change their "legal sex" on paper, simply by filling in a form. (1)
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That's not what the case review says. The tribunal differentiates between work & non work situations. If she'd objected to working with him or refused to refer to him as a woman at work, it would have been different. (1)
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Which is deeply sinister in itself! Iirc article 10 of the European convention states that no one should be forced to express a belief which they do not hold, I'm not sure if Norway is exempt from this law... (2)
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It's not about "expressing a belief" it's about whether behaviour amounted to harassment or not.
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But expressing her belief that the man is a man is part of the accusations of harassment! Did any of you actually read it?
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One can very well be required to *not* express a belief in certain situations, especially at work. And sometimes one *can* be required at work to state legal reality as opposed to their own view, though, yes, this has severe limits (unless one is a judge, then this IS work).
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Indeed, not talking about one's religious faith at work is reasonable for example. But to demand that someone refers to a man as a woman or vice versa is compelled speech & gaslighting and I can't see how it can be defended.
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Exactly in the same way as referring to same sex people as parents. In public employment this is a person representing the state and not themselves. Other employment, a part of enforced politeness.
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Anyone who self ID as a woman can use female locker room in Norway. Consequenses are that many women dont use Locker rooms. So we go home and shower instead. I am not comfortable with showering together with men, is that wrong?
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The Norwegian tribunal ruling (17/9/2018) states the law hasn't been decided by the courts or parliament in Norway on what self-ID women can use. It also says the rules of the gym in question didn't allow male genitalia in the female locker room. Maybe the reality is different?
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You didn't actually read it did you? They initially told the woman that anyone with male genitalia must use the men's, then when the man complained they changed the rules. Now the women are excluded while men with self ID are included.
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The original text was translated/read to me by a Norwegian.
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Brian, I shared the English translation with you. You didn't need to wait for your husband to translate it. In any case it's there for everyone to check for themselves.
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Classic mansplain. Remember to always ask a man first before listening to women's lived experience.
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Actual Norwegian woman upthread being ignored by him or maybe that 'maybe reality is different' is telling her she is imagining it all?
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The women who was accused of harassment in the women’s locker room after asking a male bodied person if he was in the wrong locker room went through a hard time. She had to engage a lawyer to defend her case. Reality in norway due to self ID.
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My experience of Norwegian gyms and swimming pools is that they are often very open with nowhere for private changing or showering. This puts trans people in an invidious position about where to change. The important thing here is that no threat or misconduct was alleged.
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What about the women Brian? What do you think my young daughters and I feel when a man enters and we're undressed? Why should a tiny minority of men force women to stop using women's facilities?
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Yep, thats the issue. Ive just joined a council gym. If that happened to me I wouldn't be able to go back. It could lead to women being excluded from facilities. How can that be right?
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Sorry, what? You mean it's legal in Norway to go round with your dick hanging out in the street and it's harassment if women ask you to put it away? Not sure that's quite the case Brian Lovey.
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Which is why I’m not engaging. Total distortion of the facts & what I said. Again and again and again.
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You said above "The tribunal found that the woman's conduct would have amounted to harassment if it had been in the street" - unless he had his penis out on the street she wouldn't have had any reason to say anything. It's s bizarre comparison.
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