Women have justified concerns about male violence, misogyny, male privilege & male dominance of society (as do I) but trans women are not men & are not responsible for these issues - these are issues that affect them too. Time to focus on the real issues & leave trans women alone
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But no-one is asking the women who use these services whether they consent to sharing this space with male bodied people. Please show me one single risk assessment where the female users views were included . You won't find one.
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It is. Sexism disguised as "caring and kind".
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Which is one of the reasons we have single sex prisons. The UN says women should have the right not to be incarcerated with males. There are good reasons for this, and no evidence to suggest any of these change as a result of gender identity.
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There is a woman on twitter who is in a MH ward due to abuse and a (rational) fear of men. A TW is on that ward and has access to the female areas, the woman is petrified. Surely that isn’t on? And the child in this post https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3160220-to-write-to-Women-s-Aid-and-ask-you-to-do-the-same-if-you-value-their-services …
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It’s not the first time on a MH ward. A woman earlier this year was dismissed as a bigot for raising concerns about being with a TW even though she’d been placed in a single sex unit due to fear of men. Apparently you’re not allowed to acknowledge reality even when you’re ill.
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Isn't that a bit of a.... I don't know the word. It seems to be a sick punishment to someone who has been hospitalised in a mental health ward to make them deny reality.
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Yep! It seems really bloody unfair to me. In the case Sally is referring to, the staff said something like “oh I didn’t know you were transphobic” - to a woman suffering an psychotic episode. FFS.
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Brian. Can you tell me the primary reason for sex based exclusions. The one thing that stands out above all else. In considering risk assessment. What is that primary reason. Thank you.
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Spot on. If individuals are the risk, why do we have sex based exclusions at all?
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Excellent point.
@brianpaddick - since this is your approach re. males who 'identify' as female, why not extend your generosity to all males? We know some males are DV victims/survivors. Why does your 'inclusive' approach extend only to trans women? -
Malxs cxmmit 98% xf sxual XYsaults.
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Yep. But seemingly, according to Brian, that's not an issue, bcs refuges can devote resources to risk assessment, so they need no longer remain all female spaces.
Since that's his view, I do wonder why he didn't campaign years ago for women's spaces to be open to males.....
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Refuges conduct 'needs and risk assessments 'for women referred to their service for accommodation .Refuges are already overwhelmed by the complexity of 'need 'referred to them ,add gender dysphoric men to the mix and no one's needs will be met including those of the trans'woman'
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Refuges are precious resources, often set up by women working voluntarily. They are run by women, for women & children, frequently on a shoestring & always a shortage of places. if anywhere has the right to maintain their facilities as female only, it's women's refuges.
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What about genuine trans women, who pose no threat to anyone, seeking to escape from an abusive relationship?
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Trans specific services would be the solution. Women & their children who've lived with appalling abuse should not be distressed any further, and the presence of someone male close by, regardless of how they identify, can be distressing. Lobby for refuges for trans women.
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I agree
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What's wrong with just keeping trans-inclusive refuges, as we already have? Genuine trans women are no threat to anyone, and do not need to be segregated.
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Leaving aside for a moment the issue of traumatised women as
@fwhatworld has covered that - Who will decide who a "genuine trans woman" is? I don't think there is a checklist - there is a lot of argument on Twitter about what 'genuine' is. I don't see how it can be checked.
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. But this is the thing: with self-ID, you couldn’t question someone’s presence. They are allowed to be in that space because they say they are. That’s a big change and a big concern, I think