I've not called Haskellers jerks or jerk-sympathizers, and I don't think I said anything about how you should talk about Racket.
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I didn't make any claims about what you, specifically, said, I'm supporting my thesis: that we should push back against others making such broad strokes characterizations.
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1. Haskell users are jerk-sympathizers and jerks.
2. The Haskell community has jerks in it and community norms there are not the same as in the Rust community.
1 is false but 2 is true.
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Sure, no objections. More truths:
3. The Rust community has jerks in it and community norms there are not the same as in the Haskell community.
4. The Haskell community has wonderful supportive people in it.
Why do we repeat 2 all the time but never acknowledge 3 or 4?
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because of the difference in norms: the Rust community’s norms reduce the harm that jerks can do, while the Haskell community’s norms undermine the good work of the supportive people
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the key difference being that the Rust community norms are based around the idea that you are always excluding some people, implicitly or explicitly, and by not explicitly excluding the jerks, you’re excluding others (Graydon’s post explains this much better, of course)
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Which community's norms are you critiquing here? I think Haskell StackOverflow is quite different from Haskell Gitter Community Chat is quite different from Delhi NCR Haskell User Group:
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Replying to @neurocy @samth and 5 others
And of course, why do we consistently fall back to the lazy "the X community" where X is a language with 10,000+ users in dozens of domains who form dozens of different communities? Look at just this page (which notably does not mention haskell-cafe): haskell.org/community/
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If you have opinions about some of those communities, critique them, by all means. Warn people about who they should avoid. I have to do that all the time, including with people in the Rust community who have a mean streak that isn't always visible!
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I think the centralization you pointed out in Rust community channels is not accidental, and is part of the way that they try to solve the paradox of tolerance in online communities. again, different choices lead to different results
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It is a facade of centralization. Just because they don't mention Rust reddit doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it just means that they don't have to take responsibility and can make everyone think its all roses in Rust land. Haskell is more honest about how wide ranging it all is.
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Note that Rust isn't super centralized. Eg. we have a Rust meetup in Melbourne that is wholly run by us (I'm sure most are). The Rust community discord is also managed by a separate admin team. But we do tend to follow the example set from the early days of the language.
Some stuff is managed by the community team, but not everything is like that (it would be far too much work for them to manage).
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