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bgrant0607's profile
Brian Grant
Brian Grant
Brian Grant
@bgrant0607

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Brian Grant

@bgrant0607

Google Cloud. Kubernetes Steering Committee emeritus, K8s SIG Architecture co-Chair emeritus, CNCF TOC member emeritus

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github.com/bgrant0607
Joined June 2014

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    1. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      Millions of lines of BCL have been written. A fair amount of BCL was devoted to configuring application command-line flags, which was the most common way to figure server binaries, which is crazy IMO, but the practice sadly carried over to Kubernetes components

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    2. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      BCL was evaluated and instantiated using the borgcfg CLI, which supports commands like up, down, and update. Logic to diff and merge, perform rolling updates, and otherwise update the live state was embedded in the tool. Logic for common generation functions was written in BCL

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    3. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      This created a monolithic configuration and tool ecosystem. Even frameworks like mapreduce and services on top of Borg like BorgCron had to use BCL and borgcfg to interact with Borg. Getting-started tools generated BCL

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    4. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      A Python-based language was later developed, also. It interfaced with the update logic via a protobuf that wasn't quite the same as Borgmaster's. Other languages, such as Ruby, weren't used in Google. Several new Borg config languages were developed, but none were approved

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    5. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      Not specifically developed for Borg use, https://jsonnet.org/articles/design.html … and https://github.com/cuelang/cue/  were inspired by BCL. http://aurora.apache.org/documentation/latest/reference/configuration-templating/ … and https://github.com/stripe/skycfg  were inspired by the Python language.

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    6. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      Borgcfg didn't provide configuration packages. Shared templates were unversioned and directly imported from their homes in the monorepo, which inflicted churn on their consumers. There were also no "stacks" or lifecycle directives, so a number of imperative updates were needed

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    7. Sandor Szücs‏ @sszuecs 1 May 2019
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      Replying to @bgrant0607

      What do you think about stack sets like https://github.com/zalando-incubator/stackset-controller … ?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      Replying to @sszuecs

      I was aware of it, but haven't had time to look at it closely

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    9. Sandor Szücs‏ @sszuecs 1 May 2019
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      Replying to @bgrant0607

      I think it would be valuable input for us to get feedback from people, like you, having used very different systems/deployment styles. Your posts about borg and the deployment styles (borgcfg and bcl) are very interesting for me. We use mustache templates in our cd pipelines.

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    10. Sandor Szücs‏ @sszuecs 1 May 2019
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      Replying to @sszuecs @bgrant0607

      I am not sure if Turing complete languages should be used to deploy, because it adds too much complexity. Our templates get input from our CI/CD system and an application owned delivery.yaml, that is used to have variables like application or version,which exists in all manifests

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      Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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      Replying to @sszuecs

      I believe the downsides of bespoke languages outweigh the benefits. More generally, I don't advise macro languages, configuration languages, or scripting using general-purpose languages. Keep it as simple as possible, ideally understandable by humans and tools.

      12:37 PM - 1 May 2019
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        2. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 1 May 2019
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          Replying to @bgrant0607 @sszuecs

          Configuration should be represented as data, and we need to build reusable, testable programs that manipulate the data. We have http://github.com/kubernetes-client …, but more work is needed on SDKs to make that easier. If an encapsulated abstraction is needed, build it using CRDs

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Sandor Szücs‏ @sszuecs 1 May 2019
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          Replying to @bgrant0607

          Fully agree on config as data

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        1. Sandor Szücs‏ @sszuecs 1 May 2019
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          Replying to @bgrant0607

          I believe similarly, that as simple as possible is the best. No powerful language should be used to describe a deployment. We generate some parts of the Kubernetes specs (service and parts of ingress) in our stackset, but we don’t have any powerful templating language.

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