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bgrant0607's profile
Brian Grant
Brian Grant
Brian Grant
@bgrant0607

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Brian Grant

@bgrant0607

Google Cloud. Kubernetes Steering Committee emeritus, K8s SIG Architecture co-Chair emeritus, CNCF TOC member emeritus

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github.com/bgrant0607
Joined June 2014

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    1. Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 18 Dec 2018
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      GitOps terminology clarification: Use Git as a Source of Record, and Kubernetes as a Source of Truth. https://www.taos.com/source-of-record-vs-source-of-truth/ …

      2 replies 30 retweets 84 likes
    2. Darren Shepherd‏ @ibuildthecloud 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      It's stronger than that if done right because record and truth are kept in a reconcilation loop.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Jeff Nickoloff‏ @allingeek 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @ibuildthecloud @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      GitOps sucks with k8s. That reconciliation loop should be one-way flowing from desire to realized. But k8s uses a bi-directional mutation. Mirroring that back to git is dumb. Complicated merge is dumb. Mediocre.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Darren Shepherd‏ @ibuildthecloud 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @allingeek @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      I haven't seen this behavior of k8s modifying git. Typically it is as you describe, desired state comes from git and is fed to k8s, k8s then attempts to make that a reality.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Jeff Nickoloff‏ @allingeek 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @ibuildthecloud @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      The issue is k8s mutates the resources under its own management in ways that conflict with declarative representation in git. Requiring merge on rollout.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Darren Shepherd‏ @ibuildthecloud 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @allingeek @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      I see, yeah, basically "kubectl apply" is required, is not a pure update, but a merge process. The only thing I wish k8s had done differently there would be that spec and status were two different resources. But that's the beauty of hindsight.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Jeff Nickoloff‏ @allingeek 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @ibuildthecloud @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      K8s itself is a distributed system with bidirectional state mutation (lots of concurrency). It doesn’t take a distributed systems master to anticipate these issues. Ironically, using git as the k8s backend would have at least been functionally correct.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Darren Shepherd‏ @ibuildthecloud 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @allingeek @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      i don't think you really give enough credit to k8s here. k8s is a system that allows mutation, but bidirectional, as you say, is not a core tenet and would be more a flaw in implementation. i think you'd prefer a system based on immutable data, which I too think is compelling

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jeff Nickoloff‏ @allingeek 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @ibuildthecloud @bgrant0607 @kubernetesonarm

      Immutable data is a convient way to skirt concurrency problems in a distributed system. My issue is that k8s claims ownership of the resource version identifier, that it usually leads the versions in VCS, and requires non-trivial merge downstream from git (the gitops master).

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Brian Grant‏ @bgrant0607 19 Dec 2018
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      Replying to @allingeek @ibuildthecloud @kubernetesonarm

      If you're interested in helping to improve K8s distributed systems semantics, there are definitely issues to sort out.http://issues.k8s.io/30698 

      10:34 AM - 19 Dec 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. Alexis Richardson‏ @monadic 19 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @bgrant0607 @allingeek and

          :-D

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        1. Darren Shepherd‏ @ibuildthecloud 19 Dec 2018
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          Replying to @bgrant0607 @allingeek @kubernetesonarm

          I think the toughest challenge I have at the moment is detecting when a change has been observed. With multiple controllers watching resources it's impractical for all watches to write status. Real use case: when I change a service, how do I know istio/pilot/envoy has applied it.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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