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bgolus's profile
Ben Golus
Ben Golus
Ben Golus
@bgolus

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Ben Golus

@bgolus

Tech Artist, Graphics Programmer, and general Game Developer.

Kirkland, WA
medium.com/@bgolus
Joined August 2010

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    Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1

    Ben Golus Retweeted Ethan Lee

    We shipped Planetary Annihilation on Win, Mac, and Linux. Linux uses we're a big vocal part of the Kickstarter and forums. In the end they accounted for <0.1% of sales but >20% of auto reported crashes and support tickets (most gfx driver related). Would totally skip Linux.https://twitter.com/flibitijibibo/status/1079575301485723648 …

    Ben Golus added,

    Ethan Lee @flibitijibibo
    📍Gamedevs | _ _ _ _ _ _ | 📍Linux | “Too niche” _ _ _ _ _ __| | 📍Fire TV | 📍Apple Watch | 📍Tizen | 📍NVIDIA Shield | 📍Jump
    Show this thread
    1:24 PM - 1 Jan 2019
    • 832 Retweets
    • 2,533 Likes
    • Mystic Vemaster Rinoa Billy Becker Jakub Pyzio Gareth Evans nolimonlan Человек кусает собаку Johan Poirier
    134 replies 832 retweets 2,533 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1

        So yes, fragmentation is still totally an issue.

        4 replies 3 retweets 155 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1

        We eventually laid out a guide with known good versions of Linux and graphics drivers, but it didn't matter. Part of the allure of Linux is the customizability, so few actually stuck to it, and generally wanted to run the game on older hardware we didn't support.

        4 replies 9 retweets 189 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1

        By the end of my time at Uber I believe very nearly 100% of both crashes and support tickets actually for the game were still Linux related, even after significantly engineering time. Way more Linux specific time put into that project than any other platform.

        1 reply 7 retweets 145 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1

        And again, that was for a tiny fraction of the users. Adding Linux support ended up likely costing Uber hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few hundred dollars in sales revenue.

        11 replies 22 retweets 264 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 7

        As a follow up: The game came out in 2014 Runs OpenGL 3.0 on all platforms I didn't handle support, I do VFX I no longer work for Uber (who also no longer run PA) I'm not directly involved with PA now, and haven't been for many years @PA_the_game will continue to support Linux!

        2 replies 0 retweets 33 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 7

        This also wasn't a condemnation of Linux itself, or its community, or really even in the volume of (generally very helpful!) support tickets. It's about the financial realities of supporting a platform with few users and high fragmentation.

        6 replies 9 retweets 130 likes
        Show this thread
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. headless_cyborg‏ @darkfighter413 Jan 3
        Replying to @bgolus

        I respect your opinion, howewer if @PA_the_game team looks at Linux users this way then I'm unsure about the future of PA:T on Linux and decided to move to another game. RTS is about investing a lot of time and who knows when they're going to drop support.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 4
        Replying to @darkfighter413 @PA_the_game

        Yeah ... I'm not directly affiliated with PA anymore. Linux support was a passion for many on the project, and I was a proponent in favor of that support. My point was that Linux support isn't free, and rarely profitable.

        1 reply 1 retweet 24 likes
      4. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 4
        Replying to @bgolus @darkfighter413 @PA_the_game

        I left Uber a year ago, and wasn't really involved with PA for the last 3 years I was there. Heck, PA isn't even at Uber anymore. @PA_the_game isn't likely to drop support any time soon.

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      5. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 4
        Replying to @bgolus @darkfighter413 @PA_the_game

        My personal feelings on native Linux support are I would love for it to be a successful platform, but it's a big risk for a small studio using bespoke technology.

        1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
      6. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 4
        Replying to @bgolus @darkfighter413 @PA_the_game

        Uber (and those now at @PA_the_game) felt it was worthwhile to persue, even knowing it was unlikely to be profitable.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. scruball‏ @HristoRadkov Jan 2
        Replying to @bgolus

        There is no denying that there are plenty of issues with some parts of Linux, but still I believe it will become predominant gaming platform, especially in the more "appliance" space. It is worth investing in the know-how early.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 2
        Replying to @HristoRadkov

        It already is, it’s called Android, and desktop Linux experience is essentially useless when developing for it.

        2 replies 1 retweet 61 likes
      4. Nigel J W‏ @nigeljw Jan 2
        Replying to @bgolus @HristoRadkov

        I don't agree with this comment specifically. If you are using the NDK directly, and the cross compilation debug tools for this, then it is identical to a PC Linux dev environment except for targeting a different arch. All love and absolutely no hate is attached with this reply!

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 2
        Replying to @nigeljw @HristoRadkov

        To me this kind of stuff isn't much different between Linux, Mac, or even some Windows setups, and that's not generally the problem with getting into Linux development. The issue is all of the gotchas of different distros and drivers.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      6. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 2
        Replying to @bgolus @nigeljw @HristoRadkov

        I should note, Android doesn't solve the fragmentation problem, in fact it's worse for Android than desktop Linux. Google themselves have said they can't keep track of all of the hardware & software permutations that exist. However the user base numbers make up for it.

        1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
      7. Nigel J W‏ @nigeljw Jan 2
        Replying to @bgolus @HristoRadkov

        Yeah, I agree with your high level point about Linux fragmentation, which is a nightmare! But the comment that PC Linux dev experience isn't valuable when developing on Android was hyperbolic, as it is actually invaluable, since as you say, similar issues exist on all platforms.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Nigel J W‏ @nigeljw Jan 2
        Replying to @nigeljw @bgolus @HristoRadkov

        I am sure you are just getting exhausted from responding to all the replies to this thread! I completely understand the frustration you have gone through with graphics dev on Linux, and I apologize for any frustrations on mobile. Driver devs suffer similarly from the same problem

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 2
        Replying to @nigeljw @HristoRadkov

        One thing people who know me would never call me is hyperbolic. Never ever, not in a hundred thousand years... 😉

        1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Corben Dallas‏ @Corben78 Jan 1
        Replying to @bgolus

        I'm very grateful you've supported #Linux with your game Planetary Annihilation! Thx a ton! Especially as you've kept your promise to bring this game to Linux. I think the vocal part of Linux gamers helped to spread the word, including causing sales on non Linux platforms 😉🐧🎮

        3 replies 0 retweets 60 likes
      3. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1
        Replying to @Corben78

        Hard to know the impact on sales. Some on the team argued this same point. At this point I'd guess that benefit at best cancelled out the additional costs rather than being a net positive.

        4 replies 0 retweets 30 likes
      4. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 1
        Replying to @bgolus @Corben78

        The Linux community likes to take credit for a lot of the Kickstarter success, but we found no direct evidence of this.

        2 replies 5 retweets 99 likes
      5. sunk818‏ @sunk818 Jan 8
        Replying to @bgolus @Corben78

        Don't most slot machines (gambling in Vegas) run on Linux? How are they able to create a reliable experience? Is it because they control the hardware and all components? So, they just have to write code for a specific set of components?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Ben Golus‏ @bgolus Jan 8
        Replying to @sunk818 @Corben78

        Yes.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. End of conversation

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