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baseballcrank's profile
Dan McLaughlin
Dan McLaughlin
Dan McLaughlin
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@baseballcrank

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Dan McLaughlinVerified account

@baseballcrank

Senior Writer @NRO. Reaganite, Catholic, Mets fan, ex-lawyer. Opinions 100% my own, but you can share them. Not the Cardinals broadcaster.

New York
nationalreview.com/author/dan-mcl…
Joined May 2009

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    1. Josiah Neeley  🤔‏ @jneeley78 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @baseballcrank and

      Rich, it sounds like you are arguing for an importantly different claim from the one Dan highlighted.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @jneeley78 @baseballcrank and

      Read it thru, Josiah. I think the paragraph went in a different direction than I thought its thesis statement would take it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Josiah Neeley  🤔‏ @jneeley78 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @baseballcrank and

      I did read it very carefully. It starts with an argument that is very weak (colonists were worried that Britain would end the slave trade) and then shifts into an argument that doesn’t support the original claim (wealth from slavery gave them the power to rebell).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @jneeley78 @baseballcrank and

      I agree about the first part. That seems to be Schama’s argument, but that’s been challenged. But the wealth was no small thing. Surely, that was part of the calculation these very shrewd tough minded men made.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Josiah Neeley  🤔‏ @jneeley78 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @baseballcrank and

      There’s the rub. The wealth empowered revolution point would be worth exploring, but it doesn’t support the thesis, which is a problem. And as far as I can tell the thesis is unsupportable, which is also a problem.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @jneeley78 @baseballcrank and

      I think protecting slavery was, as Morgan wrote, paradoxically part of the ideological foundation for, at the least, Virginia’s movement for independence. And Virginia was central to the Revolution. The rest of the paragraph I don’t really buy, but I would defer to specialists.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Josiah Neeley  🤔‏ @jneeley78 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @baseballcrank

      I’m not a specialist, but I would note that 1) The Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade hadn’t been formed in 1776, 2) Wilberforce wasn’t even in parliament yet, 3) Britain was at that time one of the leaders of the slave trade, 4) when Britain did get around to banning

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @jneeley78 @baseballcrank

      Right—I agree that the fear of possible British abolitionism is undercooked and not plausible.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Dan McLaughlin‏Verified account @baseballcrank 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @jneeley78

      Which is the thesis advanced by the lead NYT 1619 essay.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @baseballcrank @jneeley78

      I’d put it like this: Retaining the ideology and political economy of slavery was a very big rationale for Virginia’s elite deciding to rebel, but not because of a fear of British abolitionism, but in a defense of a non universal universalism undergirded by chattel slavery.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Dan McLaughlin‏Verified account @baseballcrank 19 Aug 2019
      Replying to @yeselson @jneeley78

      That's rather a windy way of admitting that the essay's claim is unfounded.

      6:04 PM - 19 Aug 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Richard Yeselson‏ @yeselson 19 Aug 2019
          Replying to @baseballcrank @jneeley78

          Actually, as I tried to explain here at some length, I basically agree with the claim you highlighted (would frame it around Virginia), but not for the reason provided in the rest of the paragraph. But there’s a lot more text, right? So thay one graf doesn’t get us very far.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Dan McLaughlin‏Verified account @baseballcrank 19 Aug 2019
          Replying to @yeselson @jneeley78

          Respectfully, I think you are bending over backwards to avoid granting any legitimacy to specific critiques of this essay.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies

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