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bascule's profile
Tony Arcieri
Tony Arcieri
Tony Arcieri
@bascule

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Tony Arcieri

@bascule

Co-founder @iqlusioninc, formerly @square @chain. Cryptography dilettante, polyglot programmer, key management wrangler, and infrastructure security specialist

San Francisco, CA
tonyarcieri.com
Joined May 2007

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    1. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @marshray

      @marshray @bascule What's the counterfactual? That I pick a random nonce < 128 bit and append a counter?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Marsh Ray‏ @marshray 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @matthew_d_green @bascule Right. You can't just pick a 128 bit nonce and start incrementing from there.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @marshray

      @marshray @bascule The problem here is that NIST does not seem to understand what 'unique' means. The only way to get unique nonces...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @marshray @bascule ...is to keep state between messages. Choosing at random or setting it to the output of a KDF doesn't give uniqueness.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @marshray @bascule The only thing that guarantees uniqueness without state is to pick a new key for each message. But then it's trivial.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @marshray @bascule So if you want to pick a new key per message, set your nonces to 0 or make them a 128-bit random value. Who cares.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tony Arcieri‏ @bascule 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @matthew_d_green @marshray I started with KDF-derived new key per message and a nonce of 0, then thought of switching to KDF-derived nonce

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @bascule

      @bascule @marshray Use your zero nonce.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Tony Arcieri‏ @bascule 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @matthew_d_green @marshray that's the approach I've seen @tahoelafs take (new key per message + zero nonce)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏ @matthew_d_green 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @bascule

      @bascule @marshray @tahoelafs There's no advantage to either approach except that one is simpler. I've been through FIPS140 with 0.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Tony Arcieri‏ @bascule 16 Apr 2013
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      @matthew_d_green @marshray @tahoelafs cool, seems good

      6:28 PM - 16 Apr 2013
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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